Head Inside
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and mental health professional hosts #Head-Inside formerly Mental Health Matters. Interviewing doctors and therapists, treatment professionals, organizational leaders, and other members of the mental health community about the importance of mental health awareness, treatment and the future of addressing mental health in the US. Discussing trends in the field and how to support mental health in our communities from hospitals to the dinner table.
Head Inside
Empowering Young Men Beyond Traditional Therapy with Vince Benevento
Can family dynamics make or break a young man's recovery journey? Vince Benevento, director and founder of Causeway Collaborative, joins us to unravel his personal and professional experiences in creating supportive environments for young men in recovery trying to get a launch on life. From his early days as an in-home therapist to establishing a full-fledged organization, Vince sheds light on the urgency to address educational and vocational gaps, while offering insights into reaching those resistant to traditional therapy methods. His fascinating journey reveals the transformative power of building therapeutic spaces that extend beyond conventional approaches.
The path to recovery is rarely straightforward, and our conversation delves into the rollercoaster ride of adolescent and young adult recovery. We share the story of a young man whose journey is marked by relapses and the essential role that family dynamics play in his healing process. The societal misconceptions surrounding recovery milestones are put under the microscope as we discuss the importance of supportive communities and meaningful activities in maintaining long-term sobriety. Practical strategies for families to set realistic expectations and foster open communication are explored, highlighting their critical role in ensuring sustained recovery and personal growth.
As we navigate the complexities of parenting teenagers, the discussion shifts to the evolving roles of parents as their children mature and strive for independence. We reflect on the unique challenges that come with granting autonomy and how to foster genuine connections with young adults. The chapter on post-pandemic parental expectations sheds light on the intensified pressures faced by families during this period, emphasizing the need for strong parent-child relationships amid shifting academic and social landscapes. Join us as we unravel these intricate dynamics and offer insights to guide families through the challenges of modern parenting.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, once again to Mental Health Horizons. On WPM 1037, the Voice of Asheville. This is Todd Weatherly, your host, mental health treatment consultant and behavioral health professional. I am here today with Mr Vince Benavito. Vince is the director and founder of Causeway Collaborative leading, providing direct service for all three specialized teams. A licensed professional counselor holds a BA in psychology from Wesleyan University and an MA in school counseling from Fairfield University Same as my wife, but here in the Carolinas.
Speaker 1:Actually, vince began his career as an in-home therapist for adolescents and families at the Wheeler Clinic in Plainville, connecticut, a regional behavioral health services provider. From there, he entered the corporate world, where he worked as a professional recruiter and honed career counseling skills. With these valuable experiences, vince transitioned back to individual community-based counseling as an employment specialist at the Kennedy Center, one of Connecticut's largest, most highly regarded community organizations. At the Kennedy Center, vince worked to find meaningful jobs for unemployed adults with psychiatric diagnoses and criminal histories. I did the same for the community college in our area.
Speaker 1:This is going to be a fun conversation. He joined Freudman and Billings in the 2010 Educational Therapist and completed a year-long internship in the Weston High School Guidance Department, re-initiated and co-led weekly support groups for at-risk students in 2012. Vince has brought all these skills together and experiences to start the Causeway Collaborative, which serves young men who are transitioning and needing to find their way, probably in recovery from not only mental health disorders but also substance use disorders, needing that coaching, support and vocational support in the local community in Connecticut and, you know, with a team of trained professionals, coaches and therapists that help them find their way after they've come out of residential treatment. Is that a pretty accurate description? Man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty right on.
Speaker 1:And I'll say this you know, you and I got connected through a doc that we both know and appreciate, who's in Dr Santo Piedra is a highly regarded psychiatrist in the area and he can't say, he can't say enough about you guys. We've got a, we've got at least one client coming your way and have started working together a little bit. I got to tell you that's a person who started an organization that's got some similarities in the local area and then handed it off to the therapist that's there, like what you guys are doing is. We need so much more of it. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just we just need so much more of it because young men and women they need this kind of support. I always say that that it may be one of the most vulnerable times you have is coming out of residential treatment, so that step down, transitional step, is really important.
Speaker 1:The next most vulnerable time, and maybe even more vulnerable, is when you actually step back into, like the apartment and your own space and you've got all the stuff on you now and it's like I mean more people crumble at that time than any other time and it literally I don't understand how insurance companies have skipped this component of care, which they often do. But, like, if you will, you know it looks like you've done a lot of. You know a ton of this, like working with adolescents, working in school systems, working in educational environments, corporate environment, so you've got jobs in there, education in there. I mean all the component pieces. It's like you blended all this stuff together and created Causeway Collaborative. What? What gave you the gumption to do that? Cause it's not an easy job.
Speaker 2:No, no, I appreciate that, yeah, and and know, thanks for thanks for all the praise. So, yeah, I mean, you know, I think I mean first and foremost my, my, my vision for the organization came out of my own personal experiences. You know I was a guy. I was a guy who struggled mightily with, you know, mental health and substance use. You know, throughout the course of my, you know, latter teens and into my 20s, and you know there was a couple pieces of it that really formed, you know, the ethos of who we are.
Speaker 2:One I was as trigger resistant as anybody you could ever meet, and so I really became curious and fascinated by the idea of wanting to be worked with, you know, and like finding ways to engage guys who were really hard to reach and didn't really respond to other service providers prior, kind of became preoccupied with that specific population.
Speaker 2:I also was I mean this and this is a long time ago, you know, when I was in college this is over, you know it's about 20 years ago now but like I was fascinated by the lack of support specifically for young men.
Speaker 2:You know, like men and young men, but like I was fascinated by the lack of support specifically for young men. You know, like men and young men, like there there wasn't anything you know that was focused on men's issues or young men's issues, or you know issues around, you know educational support, or where do I find a job, or where do I do this? I mean, I think you know I also wasn't one of like the super motivated kind of guys to go out and like proactively look for help. Like help had to come and find me a little bit late in the game, and so, you know I, I wanted, I wanted to be a part of a solution that was providing, you know, greater access for, you know, men and young men to care, that was providing services that were like therapeutic, but not specifically limited to couch therapy or talk therapy, which I think for some guys is, you know, something that they're not really readily able to engage in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, like you know, just they don't want to do it. You know, sometimes they're good at fronting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're good at front, and I say that only because, like I was too, you know. So I think that was a that was a core piece that that resonated with me and honestly, you know I there was unique attraction for me about the idea of you know older men pouring into young men and you know sharing stories and you know um having perspective and providing wisdom. But you know, in the ways that I think you know male specific work can be, can be particularly impactful.
Speaker 1:So have you done any, have you collaborated at all or know anything about the journeyman foundation? Have you done anything with those guys before or know?
Speaker 2:about them? I don't know anything about those guys.
Speaker 1:Similar idea, not a program per se, more like, you know, forms, groups, free groups for young men and, and you know, gives them the opportunity to kind of get under the layer and get a little deeper with how they're connecting with others, either peers or older adults, but very much centered around exactly what you're saying how do we bring back and rites of passage is a big piece of it and all these other things, but how do we bring back kind of this elder guidance as a part of an adolescent's life? You know, and it and and dads are one thing, that's true, but they, you know, as a dad, as a dad of two teenagers, I know I can't be everything Like.
Speaker 1:and you know, if you look at the kind of child development stuff which I'm sure you're very familiar with, we know that the source of their, we know the source of their information and the source of their information, the source of their guidance and and a lot of the stuff that even that channels their maturity yeah, is largely as they grow into older teens, from their peers absolutely from their, from their social groups, not from their family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and if you can, if you can spice that with something that's got actual, actual, real, like knowledgeable guidance to it, like that's the trick and that's got it sounds like that's what you're accomplishing yeah I want to, if you will. You know one or a congregate of of of individuals that you've worked with?
Speaker 1:yeah, give me a tough nut to crack story if you would, I'd love to just your experience with one that just comes out in your mind. I know they're all kind of you know you don't do easy work. They're all kind of tough, but there's I know there's a couple of shiners out there, you know, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So um, you know I mean there's so many great stories over the years. You know guys who um and guys we've had these like long and winding roads with. You know um got a guy I'll leave the name out. This kid came to me at 15 years old. You know post Karen, for you know pretty severe substance use issues. You know pretty traumatic family constellation parents were split. You know there was some abuse with mom's new domestic partner. You know dad had a new girlfriend. He was a you know C-suite guy, so you know a lot of open space for this kid to like find ways to get himself into trouble and he had plenty of money, plenty of money plenty of access, you know, not a lot of oversight, so it's a pretty messy cocktail there.
Speaker 2:Came back from Karen, came back into us and under our care and, you know like, relapsed pretty quick and so we sent him right back. He did okay for a couple of years, you know, and honestly I mean, you know, look, it's a really. I mean, as you know, todd, I mean it's a. For a 15 year old kid to come back and get sober and stay sober is a very, very tall order, right. So you know, this kid did really well for a couple of years and then, you know, about 18 years old, you know, went sideways, relapsed, got really bad for a couple of months, you know. And now, you know, and we sent him away again finally got cleaned up for good.
Speaker 2:So fast forward now you know this guy's 22, 23, comes in you know, once every six weeks, once every four to six weeks to see me just for a check-in, but working in a construction job as a project manager, making 65, 70 grand, no college, 55 hours a week, and actually started up his own little business on the side in addition, there too, and all the while we've been doing work alongside him for years through our mentorship program, get him on a regimen, having him work out, doing wellness-based stuff, helping him feel good, you know, doing a little socially focused work where you know we're trying to get. He wasn't a 12-step guy so we had to work overtime to get him connected with positive things that weren't substances, and then working him and the family in the counseling process for a couple of years on end. So you know long road for a guy like that. You know we we lost some, we won some, but the story was a was a happy ending at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:So well, it's not. You know, like you say, it's not a linear path to recovery and you know, I know that people have this, they have I've heard people really have a problem. It's like relapse is part of recovery and like I get why we don't like that statement and I I think that there's an important resistance to having that statement. Be true, that comes from people who are, who are working in recovery. I I would say, however, that, like, the process of self-discovery is not a linear path and it comes with some interesting turns and sometimes, especially as a young man, you definitely stumble and stumbling.
Speaker 1:Stumbling looks different for everybody you know, because even a person who's you know in recovery and successfully sober yeah, it's not so it's not necessarily successfully recovering you know, they.
Speaker 1:They pour all that into a work and then they crash, or they pour it into a relationship that's unhealthy, or they do all these other counter addictions, if you will, that aren't any better for their life, or they're miserable because they haven't found anything that causes them to feel good and a place to have community. And do the things that cause a person to have a fulfilling and meaningful life, the one that they want.
Speaker 2:Do the things that cause a person to have a fulfilling and meaningful life, the one that they want.
Speaker 1:And if you will speak to this because I've said this, I've been saying this for years yeah, and I think recovery is guilty of it, treatment is guilty of it, unintentionally, but it's societal. So you go to school and hopefully you finish school, or you finish, you finish some version of it and you graduate right Like there's this celebration and they give you a certificate and you're like, yeah, and then and it's a falsehood Like you know you've completed something and that feels good and that's great, but you know, in many ways it's almost like with having kids. It's almost like pregnancy. You freak out that your wife's pregnant with your child and they're coming along the way and then that child is born. It's like pregnancy. That wasn't nothing. That was just conceptually preparing me for the idea of what the real deal was.
Speaker 2:You turned the page, right, you turned the page and it's like you know.
Speaker 1:I think that celebrating markers is good, but you know, in recovery they call it 13 months. You know, more people relapse on their year anniversary than almost any other time, like in your work, work. How do you navigate this? And I want to tell you that this is not like. This is the rest of your life, by the way, what we're doing here. I know you feel good and successful. We've built some stuff and it's great. And for the rest of your life, you're going to be trying, you're going to be attempting to to manage a version of this. How do you get that message across? Cause, somewhere you have to right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no doubt, and I I think you know for us to you know that that begins with the family. I think you know and and and and cultivating a narrative with the family of one of not only transparency but sort of progression, you know, like transparency around, like establishing reasonable expectations that make sense and that you know people can kind of co-align to. You know, I think what happens most often with us is that mom and dad are over here and kids kind of over here and like we start, you know, out of the blocks, with you know party party A and party B not being on the same page. So I think you know out of the blocks, with you know party party a and party B not being on the same page. So I think you know the conversation I think begins with like what are we actually trying to do and what do you? You know, hey, kid, what's your kid?
Speaker 2:kids 23, now Right, so, you know, Johnny, like what's your vision, yeah, what's your vision for your life, and where are we heading? And then making sure that the parents understand that and and our you know, um, to some degree on board with that, Right, and if we're not on board with it, that's okay. But let's have the conversation up front and just kind of re-scope expectations. So it always begins with expectations and then from there, you know, I think I just encourage transparency. You know I encourage men, you know, to really be purposeful about sharing their resistance.
Speaker 2:You know, if you think something sucks, it's necessary that I know about it so we can pivot and go in a different direction. And it doesn't do any good for somebody to tell me that they're on board with a plan and we start working a plan for three to six months only to find out that it's not the right plan and he did it begrudgingly the whole time or whatever the case may be. So it's important, look forward, be transparent, me to be on the same page with a guy as somebody who's working to serve him and, you know, trying to work on his behalf, and really, lastly, that the vision is his. You know that it's not dad's any, you know just his parents, and it's not you know mom's, his father's, whatever, like it's.
Speaker 2:this is a young man's or a man's vision for his own life, and we're stepping forward because we believe that that's what he knows is best for him.
Speaker 1:And you have to impart the crushing news to the parents that, hey, this box that you've tried to put your adult child in, your adult son in, he may not meet that.
Speaker 2:That's correct.
Speaker 1:It may not be his dream at all, and in order for him to live something that looks that looks successful it may or may not meet your idea of success and you may need to come off of it entirely like because if we start aiming for a goal that's not his, but instead yours, it's doomed to fail in the first place. You're going to be right back in the same spot you were in yeah, because the guy's never going to run with it.
Speaker 2:If it's not his, you know he'll fake it for a little while, but it's going to be revealed eventually that it's on him and we're going to have to pivot anyway.
Speaker 1:So well, there's also a deli. I mean, I don't know what your experience is young man man was. I can pick out pieces of mine, and it wasn't necessarily that either of my parents had some overbearing idea of success about who I needed to be, but they definitely had ideas about what success looked like, sure, and so I spent a part of my life trying to meet those ideas, even though they were not mine, and then I would succeed at them and be miserable, yeah, and be like why did I? This sucks, how did I do this? You know, and I think that that you know that process is difficult. I'm I'm, you know, I'm glad I had versions of support and things that I did to kind of like let me navigate this and figure out who I am and what I want to do.
Speaker 1:But, like for a young man especially if they've gotten addiction in their background or you know something that looks like a fairly significant mental illness and mental health challenges in their background and and familial dynamics that throw into all those things that can get very overbearing, I can, I can imagine that that's like probably one of the toughest things to face and terrifying at the same time. It's like, oh my God, I have no idea who I am or what I want to be. It's easy for me to just sign on for a co-opted plan of somebody else's than it is for me to come up with my own. So maybe that's it. I'm certain that you run into this with these guys, right? It's like, well, my dad said you know, or whatever you know, well, I would just want to go out and be this successful thing. It's like, yeah, I hear that and I don't buy it. It sounds like BS to me. Like, like, tell me about that conversation when you have it with guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Um, you know, I think my approach has changed with respect to this.
Speaker 1:Really. I'll tell you why I want to hear this. I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a few years ago, you know, when I was younger, you know, and I was a little less patient, maybe like I would just fire right back. You know, and immediately. You know, poke holes and deconstruct and, and you know well, here's why that's a terrible idea. A, b, c, d, e, right, and now and I think this is a much better approach I will always allow the guy to engage me in demonstrating why his plan is going to work Right and reserve judgment. So this is a hilarious story.
Speaker 2:But we had a guy one time who came through he might've been 5'2", 5'3" maybe, and he told me that his vision was to go to the NBA, right, and so like, rather than like, you know, metaphorically dunk on him. I decided to say, okay, well, you know, I know a little bit about basketball not a lot much as a fan, not as a player. But why don't we take a look at Kobe's training regimen and see what guys who are playing in the high level are doing on a daily basis? And we got through about hour one day, one of 2,000 jump shots and 300 push-ups before you start your day. And he tapped out pretty quickly and said, hey, you know what, we should probably go look at doing something else with our time. So, you know, honestly, it was, you know, acquainting him with data and evidence around what was required and demonstrating the incongruence between what was required and what he could do that helped him get there himself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a big fan of letting things set their own limit. That's right, like you know what I mean. Like, all right, I like that idea, I've got it. I'm not going to say this in my mind.
Speaker 1:I'm like I've got a pretty good idea that that's going to set its own limit because you're going to get about a third through the process and it's going to be something that you don't want to do. That'd be my guess, but I'm going to let that play out. The other one, socrates. He called it intellectual midwifery, he would let somebody talk through. You're saying this, but also this they sound like they are in conflict with one another. Can you explain that a little further? And then the person would like they'd work their way down to tripping through it and realize it was a completely incongruous kind of ideology that they had formulated, like I.
Speaker 1:I think that that I mean. It's beautiful work. Not only is it something that allows a person to arrive somewhere, but it also teaches them a thought process which you know I did so many times in just following impulse after impulse they've never really engaged in. Now, with adolescence, this one's you've got a lot of experience with adolescence and you you know classroom work and education work and everything else.
Speaker 1:And you know one of our stories. You start with a guy at 15. And obviously there were, there was stuff that you know. His story had some, some dips.
Speaker 2:No doubt.
Speaker 1:What's the difference in your mind overall in finding a message that lands with a 15, 16 year old versus with a 23, 24 year old?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, it's a good question, um, you know, I mean, uh, I think, um, I mean, I think for me it's about relatability and connecting with people, you know, and I, I think, um, you know, this work is um helping somebody navigate their own journey. You know, and I think, if you create a space for a guy of any age to do that in a way that um allows him to open himself up, you know, and with approachability and respect and care, I think it can work. You know, irrespective of age and really irrespective of personality, I've got some, you know, very, very unlikely pairings. You know, if I walk back through the annals of, like, the client relationships that I've had, some of my favorite clients I've ever had have been some of the most unlikely pairings between myself and they. But I think it's exactly that it's not trying to overextend, not working too hard to try to force a connection when it's not there, when common interests aren't shared.
Speaker 2:There, when common interests aren't shared, I think that it's, you know, applying all the skills that we all try to do to do good work being, you know, being empathic, being kind, you know, being relatively level. I'm a little more emotional than the next guy, so that's the watch out for me. I always have to watch injecting myself too much into the conversation or allowing my you know highs and lows to peak too much. But I think, if you know as long, I mean, I think, if you abide by those principles, if you are careful, if you are honest, if you're transparent and respectful and you know, and if you allow yourself to be yourself, you know, you can, you can do pretty well.
Speaker 1:I think that's the I mean. To me that's kind of the big thing. It's like you and I are probably the same, but it's very unlikely I can be anything other than myself.
Speaker 2:And trying is painful. Yeah, I don't know how. Actually.
Speaker 1:I don't have any idea how to do something Like. I watch things where people try to. You know comedians will talk about it, or somebody you know actors or whatever be something that isn't them, and I'm like that looks incredibly painful. I wouldn't last five minutes, so now the let me switch that question up. You know, for you and me yeah, for you and the work that you're doing, like you know, a little bit of vulnerability, certainly, genuineness and authenticity, um, showing up and having a connection, like that's a great answer.
Speaker 2:Thanks, vince yeah.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that If you were, if you instead of you, you're a parent. Okay, that was a. How does a parent like? I think I get asked this question a lot. I've got some answers in my head. I love to hear yours, like how does a parent approach the the I know everything 16, 17 year old, versus the different version of I know everything 21, 22, 23 year old?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's that's having struggles or that's going through something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a great question too, I mean, I like I, it's a, it's a scope of the role conversation, I think, right, so, like you know, 16, 23, I mean 23, that guy should be independent or moving towards, you know, absolutely has far more degree of command of his life than you know, a 15, 16 year old. If he doesn't, we got bigger issues, you know. So I mean, I think, as a parent, you have to know that the scope of your role is far more limited and far more consultative, right, like you know. So I mean, I think, as a parent, you have to know that the scope of your role is far more limited and far more consultative, right, like you know, kids, guys are coming to you, your sons are coming to you, your daughters are coming to you, because you know for, for, for, advice, direction, you know insight, but the, the heavy, heavy lifting should be over by that point. At 15, 16, you're, you're right in the throes of heavy lifting yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my kids are younger, 10, 12, eight, and but we're even experiencing it, you know, with, especially, my oldest. My oldest is going to middle school, right, and we're in a cool time with him now because, you know, this summer was the first time where, like, the world became his, you know. So he got his little gizmo watch, he got his bicycle, and now him and his brother, they go, you know, they, you know 10, 10 o'clock, mom, we'll see you later. You know, come home six, 30, and they got their watches and if their mother needs them they call. You know she calls, right. So I mean, I think even there there's some discomfort for me and her.
Speaker 2:For sure, like you know, it's you know out of mind is hard, especially because this is the first time going through it. But if you kind of see our vision for our children are that you know we work to help them become better independent versions of themselves. Right, and I believe that you know a bicycle and a watch gets him closer to that than him being at home. You know where he's under my watchful eyes.
Speaker 2:So, it's important for, I think, parents to as that as that world expands, right, because you know, 16 is bigger than 12 and 23 is bigger than 16. As their world expands, we have to shrink our own role to allow them the space to step in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the discomfort piece is where it where it falls apart sometimes for parents, and you know I have my own pitfalls as a parent. I fully acknowledge them. I've got a 20-year-old going to college and I've got a 17-year-old got his first car. We're in two different launching places, but they're versions of independent launching.
Speaker 1:It's like I don't know. I think the car's harder than college, to be honest, with you Giving them the car and letting them drive off by themselves for the first time. It's terrifying, honestly. As a person who does not experience terror very often, it terrifies me, sure, but it's like and how else is he going to go and do these things if I don't let him go do them? And then they come back and there's a little trouble here, there's something else, or they get a ticket or the things that happen. They come up and then you try to deal with them as a parent.
Speaker 1:I think that when you and I are working with individuals who are one, they suffer from some challenges in the first place and they've gotten into trouble, and it's addictions and mental illness, but those things will throw a maturity process off, hands down. So this person's on a delay or a lag, and then you've got the maybe you've got the late teens or early 20s year old that's in the basement, hasn't done any launching, hasn't done any things, might need treatment. And then they get to you and it's like okay, how do we not backpedal, right back to where we were, um and I? It might be a cool thing, you get these guys I? I assume they're coming from transitional living environments, for the most part, sometimes directly from treatment, coming home like I tell you what's.
Speaker 2:What's interesting, though, todd, is like a lot of times these guys are not coming from those places, you know. So, like in, you know, I mean I say 15 to 20% of cases they are. They're either, you know, you know, stepping up from once a week with a therapist to something more comprehensive with us or stepping down from program to us. You know, to maintain continuity along the continuum from program to us. You know to maintain continuity along the continuum. But honestly, I mean we get a lot of referrals just for guys who are looking for something different, you know, compared to what's offered. You know, with respect, to care, you know.
Speaker 2:So like for us, like I mean our mentorship program. You know the way we take guys out in the community and help them do things and you know sort of the teach a man to fish kind of framework.
Speaker 2:There's not a lot of supports out there male to male, particularly in the realm of uh, you know kind of clinical overlay that parents can, can grab a hold of so we get a lot of like 16 year old kids who play too many video games, who don't do anything else, who, like we can just kind of like get them out in the community and like do something you know, which is a significant intervention for a guy like that, you know.
Speaker 2:Or we get guys who are, like you know, um, super anxious about the college process and a little bit late in the game, and so like we can do a little work around. Like you know a guy whose transcripts a little messy, who's like more your c, you know c ish kind of guy like that there's still an option for him around to go forward, plan, whether that's community college and we ladder up or we go straight to four year or we do a vocational route. Like we want to grab ahold of the guys who you know aren't the top 10 in the class and aren't going to Ivy league schools, but like they want to plan too you know they deserve one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh man, yeah, I, I I wish that. Um, like, I say, we need more of it, so much more of it, because I think that those folks I think what we see in the in the, like, emergency treatment, placement things have gotten bad, not a hand is probably a significant portion of those guys that you're talking about that never got that at 15 or 16. And what they gravitated towards was, you know, maybe a bad crowd or you know, substances that were, you know, they might as well play video games and get high all day, you know, or whatever. Like they gravitated to those things because they didn't have a resource that wasn't just IOP out of the local community, whatever, or a therapist who, like you say, knows how to present well, can tell you a good story and walk out and do whatever the heck they want, which they do very often. Um, and it needs something that lives on the ground and feels like it means something, and and that's what you're providing and I, I wish we could, just I wish we could orchestrate it so that it lived in school systems and it lived in other places, so that we could stop having this repetitive treatment problem that we've got in our country which is just getting worse, post pandemic Worst I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:Did you see a lot of, did you see a lot of fallout from the pandemic Like what? What was the? What was the deal? Pandemic wise for you? What did you see?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was a really interesting time for us and a really interesting time to be a business owner. They didn't, they didn't give you the rule book on that one. So yeah, I mean, you know, look, I mean I remember actually very, very well it was my kid's birthday. So you know, my son's birthday was we were celebrating his birthday on the- it must be a March baby, right. Yeah, it was March, right, so his birthday is the 21st, but we celebrated oh, mine's the 23rd.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, it was march right.
Speaker 2:So his birthday is the 21st, but we celebrate the 23rd. Yeah, yeah, but we celebrated. We celebrated the week before, right? So on the 15th march 15th, I took my kid out, we spent the whole day together. You know, we we had this wonderful, wonderful day and then, like the announcement came over, all the things the world is closing mond at, you know, whatever. You know, 9 am, and so, like, down we were going. I mean, I got that news on Friday night. I had the full team online on Saturday. We flipped the whole business remote by noon on Monday and we're running the whole operation, you know, completely remote, completely virtual.
Speaker 2:Now, we had almost no virtual capabilities before, but we caught up pretty quick, and so what it meant was, you know, a couple of things. One, I think you know, we got a pretty big spike coming out of the blocks. So, like you know, we had this big influx of everybody was, like, you know, in the kind of crisis that we were all in. So, you know, parents wanted to kind of shore their kids up, you know, in that first couple of weeks, and then it was like, then nobody knew how long this thing was going to go, right, and so it was like all right, well, let's hunker down, right. So all the guys who just pumped right in, you know kind of you know sort of dissipated and people were playing the waiting game in a very sort of thoughtfully conservative kind of way, you know. So what it amounted to really was we had a pretty significant uptick in terms of business around like the family side. So we're doing a lot of work around crisis mitigation, family work, because everybody was stuck in the house ready to kill each other.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But not a lot of. You know, after about month two there was not a lot of new business coming in and not a lot of families were reaching back out again because no one knew how long this was going to go and to what ends. And so it was hard on the business side for a while, for sure, and we made things work. Here we are, but for the guys like now, who were?
Speaker 2:moving through it and who emerged from it, like now you know who were moving through it and who emerged from it. I mean, those were scary, scary, scary times for everybody and I think that the people that we see, the young men that we see now, right, these you know highly video game addicted, online focused, like lack, lacking activity, school refusing, like these guys who are really struggling. Much of that work came out of the deficits that were, you know, curated and cultivated in COVID.
Speaker 1:And these guys have just never caught up, so yeah, and then, and then they're standing here in a lurch on the other side of it and then they need somebody to help them walk through it. And I think the you know. The other thing that I see is people get in a real hurry, like you've got parents that are so you've got, you come out of pandemic, right, you got some, you got some grades that you failed. You got some, you got some stuff, some stuff you got to shore up. And now you're sitting here and you're going back to school and you're in a lurch, and then you see parents kind of do this big, like you know ladder of influence. Oh, he's, you know, he's, he hasn't done this right and he hasn't done this right and suddenly his life is going to be terrible and and, and we, we will, as parents, have failed.
Speaker 1:So, like when you have to work with that, um, I'm always telling people it's like look, if he doesn't graduate on the year that the school gave him years for, so what? Let's slow down and let's be concerted about this plan that we're making for you and your family so that we can actually get there. Do you get a lot of pushback from families on that message? Like when you have to be like okay, it's, where's the fire, first of all. Second of all, like let's just throw our let's throw our destination goal out a little bit, let's figure this out and let's let's cool off and slow down for a minute, like what's the pushback you get from parents? Uh, all a lot, yeah I mean a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, and that's not from everybody in your area, I mean you know I mean I, I look we, I mean we're and we're in.
Speaker 2:You know we're in fairfield county, connecticut. We're in. You know the affluent suburbs of hartford, connecticut. We're in westchester county. You know new york affluent suburbs in new york city, right. So you know we're, we're getting parents with very, very high expectations.
Speaker 2:Um, a lot of times those expectations are, you know, just out of out of alignment with, like what the kid has done right, like not maybe what he's capable of, but certainly what he's done, and I think the frustration often comes from that, if for nothing else. And so, like, something has to move. You know something has to move, the expectations have to move, or the capacity and the drive and the ambition and the work ethic and all the other things on this side have to move. But I mean, I think what we try to attack first is the relationship. You know that the expectations are counter to the relationship, and the relationship you have with your kid is more important than anything. So if you want to drive a wedge between you and your kid, keep up with your lofty expectations. If you want to have a relationship that's meaningful and lifelong with your kid, maybe it makes sense to modify and adjust your expectations and actually listen to what your kid has to say.
Speaker 1:No, it's not a series of objective. They're human being in front of you. Let's start there. Wow, we need a bumper Like we need a T-shirt.
Speaker 2:We need swag.
Speaker 1:We need swag. A bumper sticker, we need a t-shirt, we need swag. We need swag. I'm going to start working on it. This has been fantastic. I think we could just do a bunch more interviews and keep going nerd out about this stuff, but I sure do appreciate you making time for being on the show today. This is Todd Weatherly with WPBM 1037, the Voice of Asheville. Mental Health Horizons will be with you guys next time. Vince, thanks a bunch.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thanks so much, todd, really appreciate the talk, you too. Thank you. I have no time left. Time is lost, no time at all. Throw it in a garbage. Can Then I take God's hand, I jump up and let her know when I can. This is how I'm out.