Head Inside Mental Health
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and mental health professional hosts #Head-Inside Mental Health featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care.
Head Inside Mental Health
Wellness Over Sickness: Reimagining Mental Health Treatment with Dr. Michael Groat
Dr. Michael Groat, President and CEO of the Lindner Center of Hope, talks with us this week about how therapeutic communities break free from traditional care silos and embraces a truly integrated approach.
Our conversation explores how the Lindner Center's unique continuum of care—from acute hospitalization to residential treatment and outpatient services—creates seamless transitions for patients navigating complex mental health challenges. At the heart of this approach lies the therapeutic community philosophy that fosters belonging, collaboration, and mutual support. Our talk reveals how creating a positive staff culture directly impacts patient outcomes through neurobiological mechanisms that transmit emotional states before conscious thought occurs. This science-backed insight illuminates why environments where staff feel valued and engaged consistently produce better healing outcomes.
Dr. Groat emphasizes the importance of collaborative care and making the shift from "sickness care" to "wellness care"—a transformation that requires providers to look beyond symptom management toward cultivating a vision of what recovery and thriving can look like for each individual. This creative, person-centered approach stands in stark contrast to assembly-line psychiatry that often leaves patients caught in cycles of crisis. Listen now to discover the powerful difference integrated, community-based treatment makes in people's lives.
Hello folks, Thanks for joining us on Head Inside Mental Health, featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment, with experts from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care. Broadcasting on WPBM 1037, the voice of Asheville independent commercial free radio, I am Todd Weatherly, your host therapeutic consultant and behavioral health expert. Joining us today is the esteemed and distinguished, but first and foremost, a caring and compassionate human being, Dr Michael Grote. Dr Grote is the president and CEO at the Linder Center of Hope and non-profit mental health center, providing psychiatric hospitalization, assessment and residential treatment, as well as extensive outpatient services just outside of Cincinnati, Ohio. Dr Grote has received his PhD in counseling psychology at the University of Albany State University of New York. He completed his postdoctoral fellowship in the treatment of refractory personality disorders at the Austin Riggs Center of Residential Therapeutic Community up there in Stockbridge, Mass. He is the Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Health Neuroscience at the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine. He was previously Chief Clinical Officer and Director of Psychology and Assessment at Silver Hill Hospital, where he was also Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine. He's also former CEO of Cooper Rees, a residential healing community with two campuses here in the Asheville area. Former CEO of Cooper Rees, a residential healing community with two campuses here in the Asheville area.
Speaker 1:Dr Levine was just on our show, actually, as well as former director of adult services at the Menninger Clinic, prominent psychiatric assessment center in Houston, Texas, and associate professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the Baylor College of Medicine. While there, Dr Grodd is a research fellow of the Anna Freud and Yale Child Study Centers. He is a fellow of the American Psychoanalytic Association and a recipient of the Pillar Award from the Miniker Clinic. He has lectured widely on topics related to psychotherapeutic treatments, acute and intermittent levels of care, suicide prevention, personality assessment and recovery. I might get to see him in June in Arizona. In fact, I have had the distinguished privilege of working with Dr Grote as a member of the Lindner Center of Hope Referral Advisory Committee and work regularly with his team there at the Sipsy and Williams House programs. Dr Grote, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, Todd, for that incredibly gracious welcome and introduction.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it you, uh, you probably know dr john santo pietro. Did you know him? At all yeah yes, he was he. I did his intro and he's like who is this guy?
Speaker 2:I know, I was thinking that guy has really been busy.
Speaker 1:He has been busy.
Speaker 2:Yes, you have been busy man, I tell you it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, how long have you been with Linder Center? Now A couple years.
Speaker 2:I've been with Linder 13 months. This is my 14th month. Okay yeah, so relatively new here to Linder.
Speaker 1:Center and the state of Ohio and the Cincinnati region. Well, I'll start with this piece, which is I rely fairly frequently on the Linder Center for something that it's very hard for me to get in other places around the country. It's pretty unique and and it's approached. There are some places you can get this done, but linder is one of those places that's got an acute, an acute, uh, psychiatric hospital, so a person can be hospitalized, which means which means keeping them against their will. Sometimes, if they're unsafe to themselves or others, they meet criterion for detainment, if you will, psychiatric detainment. But it sits right there on the unit, it doesn't feel like a hospital. And just outside of that there's Sipsy and Williams House, the assessment center and the stabilization acute care treatment center or side of the house where people can kind of come out of that environment, have a care team that figures out what's going on for them, give them not only a diagnostic you know diagnostic profile or you know identify what it is that's going on with them, but also come up with a treatment plan and help them engage in the initial stages of treatment so they can kind of follow through with, you know, a lot of times residential care after that, or potentially outpatient care, and so it's this. You know, at the acute level it's a continuum of care that's very robust and very useful to a person who's having some pretty serious symptomology or mental health conditions.
Speaker 1:And you guys have got developments to the building. You're adding on. The outpatient services continue to grow. You've got strong alliances to the university there, where you know you help provide them with expertise and teaching and other kinds of stuff. Where, like, what brought you here? And I think I have some of that answer. But where and where are you guys going? Like I think that you're this prominent feature, not only in the local community but in the national community. What's your, what's your vision, what you got going on?
Speaker 2:Yeah right, great question, john. So you know you've touched on some of the features of the Linder Center of Hope. You know I learned about Linder back in the mid 2000s when Dr Keck, who is the founding president, ceo, was working with the Linder family on establishing this program as a national referral center. Establishing this program as a national referral center and, as you have pointed out, a place with a robust offering of a continuum of care all under one roof. This is one of the few independent, non-for-profit psychiatric hospitals I've seen in the country where you have that entire continuum under one roof. You can walk from inpatient to residential to outpatient without having to leave the building, and that was an intentional design to provide this. You know, total range of service for people, for individuals and families. So you know what I learned about the Linder Center years ago. You know I knew that Dr Keck and the Linder family were working closely with the College of Medicine in wanting to establish a rigorous, comprehensive treatment program, but one that was infused with a Midwestern sensibility, a Midwestern warmth and hospitality. Midwestern warmth and hospitality and one other thing is a certain kind of authenticity and genuineness that people have a really down to earth type of approach. So it's a really nice blend of combining people who you know are at the forefront of thinking and leading-edge research but also have a really down-to-earth, humble, caring way of relating to people. So that really drew me to consider working here.
Speaker 2:Dr Keck, a few years ago, talked to me about coming to join the center.
Speaker 2:He and I were speaking at a conference together in Arizona and he spoke with me about whether I might be interested in taking another look at the Linder Center. It is something I had considered in the past and two years ago when he spoke with me, we began a series of conversations and he introduced me to the Linder community, introduced me to the Linder community and I came on to continue really that trajectory of work that I've done with other hospitals, which is, you know, advancing clinical excellence, you know, continuing work to provide an optimal experience for patients and families. So now, as I assume the leadership role of the center and as you point out, we're embarking on a $30 million expansion which includes building a four-story 52,000-square-foot medical office building and it includes another wing to our SIPC House Residential Assessment Program, there's huge opportunity here to think about who else can we serve and take care of in the Cincinnati region and around the Cincinnati area down in Kentucky and then throughout the state of Ohio and to Indiana and West.
Speaker 2:Virginia and Kentucky and Tennessee, and you know we aim to be a premier mental health resource right here in the Midwest as well as for people throughout the country. So you know I think of it in concentric circles. We are expanding the range of services for the local community, being a real strong powerhouse in the Cincinnati region for mental health care powerhouse in the Cincinnati region for mental health care. The number of people seeking mental health care has been and the providers that we have for mental health care has doubled in the last four and a half years. So there's just enormous needs in the community that we're rising to meet. And with our assessment program, we know that people around the country are looking for diagnostic expertise that we offer and we're growing to meet that need.
Speaker 2:So my vision is, you know, first looking at how do we really leverage all this wonderful new space that the board of directors and the Linder family are providing and use it in a way that advances mental health. And to do so, what I'm doing in particular is looking at how do we build partnerships that allow us to do new things. So, for instance, our connection to and our affiliation with the College of Medicine. In fact we're owned in part by the College of Medicine. What that allows us is the opportunity to do more partnerships around. You know, dissolving that disconnect between you know, medical care and mental health care.
Speaker 2:There's a way to bring them together in a more integrated fashion, such that you know if I'm a woman who is, or someone who's, you know, bearing children, I can go in for an OB-GYN appointment and, while I'm there, also know that there is mental health care available to me as well, and I've been having discussions with OBGYN regarding an integrated clinic for maternal health. I've been in conversation with the sleep disorders clinic at the university regarding what more can we provide people around sleep disorders, which tend to be underdiagnosed or undiagnosed for many individuals struggling with mental illness, but having conversations with the Department of Endocrinology because we know a number of individuals who particularly are living with long-term mental illness vulnerability may be struggling with various forms of metabolic disorders like diabetes and what can we provide?
Speaker 2:them. So part of my vision is looking at what partnerships can we build to better serve a range of people, to meet the needs of youth, to meet the needs of older populations. Looking at our demographics, the majority of our patients are between 18 ages of 18 and 30, and then the other big portion of our patients is, interestingly enough, people over the ages of 65. So really looking at, how do we meet the needs of these populations, how do we adapt and innovate our services?
Speaker 2:to best meet the needs and because we are a freestanding, independent hospital, of course affiliated with the College of Medicine, I think we work best when we work as a team and we work in partnership with other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a team. John said this it's a team sport.
Speaker 2:It's exactly a team sport.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. Well, you know, one of the things that and as you know, in our practice we spend a lot of time working with families and individuals who are kind of 40 plus.
Speaker 1:That's right Not just kind of hitting 40 or hitting 50 perimenopause and having a lot of mood dysregulation and depression and anxiety, some of which is connected to endocrine systems and or hormonal levels and all these other pieces. And you know, one of the issues and part of the reason I enjoy working with Lindner Center is because you can. You could go to a place that that offers psychiatric services, but there, but you find way too often they live in a silo and and that person may get what is more or less a decent psychiatric evaluation or a neuropsych, but they've left out these other pieces. They haven't done blood testing, they haven't done hormonal testing, they haven't done some of the things that might be impacting this person and potentially at levels that are not going to be reconciled.
Speaker 1:If you just come out exclusively with a psychiatric assessment and a psychiatrist throws some medications at you for symptom management, but the hormones are still off and the person just keeps, you know they're on a med that doesn't work, they still feel bad, their condition complicates as a result and we're coming up with a world where people are grasping at straws to find answers for stuff like this. And you know not a lot of people know exactly what a therapeutic consultant is and by the time they get to us. We're one of the things that it's that's very much at the front of our minds is let's figure out what's going on first, before we start treating you yes, yes um, and that's something that lender has always done incredibly well uh, the, when you are in the expansion of the, the that you're talking about.
Speaker 1:You've got a new building, you're talking about more partnerships and things like that. Something that came to mind as you were speaking and I know this is part of your history coming you've got Meninger, but you've got Cooperese and you've got Silverhill. You've got this background. That's not only highly sophisticated psychiatric assessment, diagnoses, treatment and the like, but there's a thread there of therapeutic community, which is a philosophy. We approach treatment together as a philosophy. We approach treatment together as a team. How are you weaving that thread of therapeutic community into the developments and the programming that you're putting into place now and what's part of your team as it stands?
Speaker 2:That's a terrific question and insightful observation. I I love your use of the word silo, because community and integrated care is a way of abolishing silos and really bringing people together. That's right. Inclusivity I'm thinking about collaboration, I'm thinking about things that foster a sense of belonging and that I think that you know, going back to the idea of a team sport, you know I have also learned in healthcare that oftentimes our best thinking is done together and that you know, for example, in partnering with someone like you who is working with a family, working with someone who's struggling and learning from your experience, you know that becomes a really important data point to be holding in mind and thinking about and bringing into our work spirit that recognizes the value of everyone, at the very least, and creating forums, creating opportunities for people to really have a voice and to have their perspective heard and understood and thought about. And you know from there kind of I think it was like building blocks you know, creating an environment where people feel safe and encouraged and welcome to participate, and that you also set up structures and processes that foster collaboration, that foster a sense of working together at things. So in my career I have done this through how I have set up staffing structures.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was at Silver Hill, I set up a clinical leadership team that didn't exist prior to that where all the clinical leaders got together and we worked at reducing silos. We worked at thinking about patients, but then also meeting with patients and meeting with families and learning from them about you know, what are your needs and how can we best partner together. You know, here's some of what I'm thinking. What do you think of this? And all these types of steps over time, I think are cumulative and they create, they foster a sense of we're in it together, we're working at it together, and then you can actually have, you know, community events that you know kind of mark that we are a community and, you know, have various kinds of rituals, whether it's, you know, celebrating staff through employee appreciation or celebrating people's recovery. You know patients in recovery.
Speaker 2:You know, some of my favorite experiences in my career have been sitting with patients at the time of discharge as they reflect on their experience and they share words of wisdom with other patients and have talked about what they gained and their new outlook.
Speaker 2:You know, those are incredibly rewarding moments and I have found that they most often best occur in the context of a community and in the various kind of therapeutic communities I've been part of oftentimes residents of communities, patients of communities, whatever kind of context it's in they'll talk about the peers and the relationships with people that they've formed in the community, and the sense of belonging and support from the community was in many cases the most beneficial thing that people gain from the treatment experience.
Speaker 2:And so, knowing that and knowing the power of community, I'm always attentive to how do we harness that power and really make the best use of it in whatever program I'm in and so here at Lender, you know I've been really very behind our Employee Engagement Committee and Employee Well-Being Committee and you know they have just early on said let's grow the membership of these committees and they have grown in size and there's all these staff coming together from across the organization. We're saying you know we're interested in fostering a sense of community and celebration and appreciation and we're now sponsoring a record number of community activities here at Lender. That's great, yeah. This week we have candy grams for Valentine's Day and then we just had cocoa and karaoke the other day in the gym where staff came together we sang karaoke, we had fun. We had hot cocoa in the cold weather, and then, right before that, we had 2024 music rap, where everyone picked out their favorite music and artists from the year 2024, and uh.
Speaker 2:And then you know, two weeks from now we're starting the march madness bracket and then we're having a food truck come to celebrate the c Reds opening day in their training camp. And of course, you know just you know bringing people together, fostering a sense of connection, and you know we're in this together, we're. You know we're enjoying each other, we're working side by side. You know we're all here around the mission of taking care of people and, you know, helping them find hope.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that I mean you talk about staff culture, of course, and it's something that has to. It's not just a concept, you know, it has to live inside of it, that's right.
Speaker 1:You know, it's this thing that you know you do every day. I think I don't know if people really realize the, what a culture like that does to support a healing environment, how you, in ways that you can't really name sometimes and can't be said, you pass it off to the people that you're caring for, yeah, and and just the. They see it, they witness it, they feel a part of it. Uh, and it and it and it provides this I don't know, know magical base. If you will, I'm sure we could do a bunch of neuroscience and brain scans on it if we wanted to.
Speaker 2:I think you probably could, because one thing I think about is when we humans are stressed and taxed and let's say, I'm in a workplace and I don't, and I feel I don't feel supported and I don't feel safe and I don't feel valued, don't?
Speaker 1:feel respected. You're talking about a large portion of the community health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's kind of an underlying strain to that, and there's something kind of miserable about it that you carry with you in contrast to, you know, having people feel free of that kind of burden and being able to have the kind of emotional freedom to relax and focus on being present. And so I think you're right, if we can be present and really present for patients and their families, I think there is something you know really important that happens.
Speaker 1:You know, when I was at Cooper Rees a place that you and I share and having been a part of there, and we had a presentation that was, they were talking about the brain banana.
Speaker 1:And it's basically the region of the brain and the parasympathetic nervous system and the mingles part of it, part of the prefrontal and everything else, but the center that processes emotions and stores information. That is long-term. At any rate. The study they were doing with it was how this portion of the brain processes what's on your face of the brain processes what's on your face like you walk in the door and my brain is processing information that it sees registering from what you're, what you're expressing in your facial structures and and basically category is this a threat? Is this person upset? Are they a friend of mine? Like what is what do I need to be prepared for as this?
Speaker 1:person walks in uh, and you know they were. They were seeing that if a person, like before they could, before they could uh register anything cognitively, their brain was already responding, the body was already responding to the person was walking in the room yeah um, I can help but think, based on that, that that effect is also cumulative. If you've got an environment of people that are stressed and disenfranchised and not appreciated in everything else. They're passing that stuff off to the people they care for. The opposite is also true.
Speaker 2:That's a lovely point. That's fantastic. Yes, that does actually uh, you know, integrate neuroscience, right and? Yeah yeah, the importance of how we show up and the difference that that makes, especially, as you say, over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the, the, how we show up piece, and you know, one of the things just as a compliment to you and your team and something I think that you've been very intentional about it's not just partnering with these other agencies. You know there's the university and there's other professionals and everything else. Let's see what we can do to align ourselves and be better at the assessment work and treatment work that we do Great. But I also happen to know you know, as a person who's a referrer and has worked fairly closely with members of your team, that you know they do a really good job, especially these days, of being inclusive of others who are involved in a person's treatment and care process. So you know, maybe they have a therapeutic consultant or maybe they have a referring clinician or a referring doc or all of those, and the team's reaching out, wanting to get information from this person, making sure maybe the referent feels included or has some, you know, knows what the process is for this person and is pulled in on a team meeting that gives an update and those kinds of things. And for a lot of places I have to go after that stuff and with you guys it's just part of the regular makeup of how you do things and I think that that was a process for Lender Center, as it is for many to try and just let's be open to the people who are partnering with us and sending their clients or the people that they've been working with, to us for their care. That's a trust that they've given to us and we want to return the favor by making sure that they feel included and that their contribution is honored. Feel included and that their contribution is honored and it's.
Speaker 1:You know, there's no small feat, because if you go in other places, the silo, the walls come down and the silos start to start to incorporate. When. What is it that you did? You know what was, what was in your time there. You know the 13 months. Um, even since then, I think this has been something that's on your mind and you wanted to make sure it was part of your team. What is it that you did to impart the importance of all of that, even as it passed off, to people who are not necessarily collaborative provider partners? What was it that was the key point or points that you made for your team and what is it that caused them to get it?
Speaker 2:Because they seem to really get it yeah, no, it's a um really thoughtful question and and point you're making. Um, I think there uh are a few things and you know, as you were talking, todd, I um, you know, I had this kind of image of the heart, and not necessarily the physical heart per se, but more the sense of having your heart in the work, and a positive sense.
Speaker 2:And I mentioned that because I experience a lot of folks and this is true. You know a lot of people in mental health care go into it because they want to help others. There's an altruistic kind of motivation and bent many people have. Like you have yourself right, you care about people, and so I think it's not a lot of steps for staff to consider. You know, part of really caring for somebody is to make sure that we have everything we need to provide the best care, and that includes our openness to learning and including everyone who's involved in this person's life life because you know we don't you know we have the privilege of, you know, working with people, for you know a certain period of time, whether it's 10 days or 28 days or two months, and you know families have related to their loved ones for years.
Speaker 2:So have outpatient providers, so have people like you with therapeutic consultants. You may have been working with a given family for months and have had lots and lots of interactions and experiences, and so I think part of it is recognizing that we deprive, potentially deprive, the patient of the most informed care when we don't include others, the most informed care when we don't include others. So and that taps into you know, our care or the best interest of the patient is really paramount. So that's one way I've talked about it. Another thing I've done and this is interesting I reminded a number of team members that you know we're a national referral center and I think you know a number of team members that you know we're a national referral center and I think you know a number of staff they may have grown up in this area and went to school here and work here and haven't really, you know, traveled.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm Midwestern kind of mind, you know, or whatever.
Speaker 2:They haven't necessarily traveled the country like you and I and may not appreciate what that means. That you know, hey, we're people, respect us, people look up to what we're doing and we want to honor that respect and, you know, maintain that trust that people put in us. I talk a lot about the importance of trust and how you know how hard it is to really earn trust, to maintain the trust. And part of maintaining that trust is recognizing that therapeutic consultants, other people refer to us, they want to be included, they need to be included. It helps foster trust, it helps foster good relationships and it's good work, helps foster trust, it helps foster good relationships and it's good work.
Speaker 2:So I think I have, you know, I prioritize it. I, you know, even this morning, during I lead the treatment rounds on residential still, and you know, even this morning we were discussing someone who's discharging today and one of the conversations we had is talking that this person's consultant. You know, let's talk with them today, let's, you know, see if there's anything they need, as this person's about to head out the door. You know, even though we talked to them just yesterday, we're going to talk to them again today, the consultant, because it's that high touch.
Speaker 1:Troublesome consultants. What's that Troublesome consultants?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I think it's high touch. It's an awareness of, you know, high touch, care matters right. Yeah, we do want to stand out, as you know, really take on the extra miles as best we can and you know, I just think it's part of you know doing good business if you will, and I think it's just part of good relationships.
Speaker 1:Well, as you say, it's part of good care. I mean, if you go certainly you've had this frustrating experience I know you have, I've certainly had where someone goes into care in a psychiatric hospital somewhere in the country and sometimes you get a good doc who's just truly compassionate and everything else. A lot of times you're going to get somebody who, like we say, is a little siloed but, more importantly, they they literally don't look at anything. They don't look into the head, the past or any of the meds they were on before they put them on, whatever the regimen they think that they should be on based on the symptoms they're seeing in a 30-minute meeting and they're out the door and just as likely to get it wrong. About half the time they do get it wrong and two or three days the person's on the street, right back into crisis again and they repeat the cycle. This happens a lot. It really happens a lot.
Speaker 1:Now, as a person, you've got a very distinguished career walking through being a part of treatment programs that have a lot of sophisticated clinical I know for a fact they're all connected to hospitals and other treatment providers and everything else and everything else. Where do you think the disconnect is between what you help orchestrate and the kind of care provider you have become and try to give to others, of course, in your organization and say the hospital system that keeps this cycle that we see that's broken alive. Where do you think the disconnect is? Is it in training? Is it when they get their light Like? Where is it, in your opinion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good question. Well, the first place I go to in my mind is you know, thinking about the system you know some of these clinicians are embedded in and you know, which I think goes back to you know, our conversation about the importance of the communal spirit, the importance of a place where our brains can relax and we can feel increased freedom.
Speaker 2:To take a little extra time to, you know, get to know someone in more depth, take a little bit to the work, yes, and which is different than a, than a system where there's enormous pressures and where people don't feel the freedom and they become more kind of, you know somewhat, automatons, you know going through checking boxes and filling out paperwork.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I'm sympathetic to you, know being part of that system can snuff out some of the care and passion people may have gone into medicine for in the first place. You know you don't go through medical school and all these other trainings if you don't have some desire to make a difference. And I think you know over time, you know a variety of pressures can really make it more difficult to feel free to practice the way one might wish to.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:People kind of give up. Sometimes People are resigned or feel like they have to, you know, adapt, and so I do think the systemic culture plays a big, big role what's rewarded, what's incentivized, the leadership and what the leadership talks about in models. That's why I think about you know what I'm conveying to staff all the time I try to make sure that I'm a presence and I'm conveying that time matters, that people matter, that care matters. But you know that can be difficult to uphold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially if you're in a system that's not sharing it with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, right, well, you know young providers of course they get into these things. What's the quote?
Speaker 1:The last. Yeah, that's right. Well, you know young providers, of course they get into these things. What's the what's the quote? The last thing to realize, that's surrounded by water is a fish. You know they're just they're just swimming through this thing and they think this is the way that this is done.
Speaker 2:Well, that's right, yeah, you know that's right. Yeah, and then maybe they they're told, you know, hey, keep up the great work and you're very efficient. And and, uh, you know, one thing I'd really do appreciate is in my meetings with the, the Linder family. Um, you know, even on the one hand, they have, um, you know, they have an appreciation for the realities of the business world and they've been successful in business. Uh, but Mr Linder has said to me a few different times, and I was like Michael, you know, I want us to be good stewards of our resources and cost efficient, but quality is number one. And you know, hearing that from the chair of the board, from the person who you know has invested so much of, you know, their family resources, saying you know we want quality, that counts for a lot.
Speaker 1:It really does. You know it's more than lip service. Absolutely Well, it's. You know. I think that you're something. I think that would be a solution to a lot of just the health care system in general, not be a solution to a lot of that, just the health care system in general, not just psychiatric, but a lot of the health care system is to and is incentivized positive outcomes as opposed to you know, it's a lot of it is sickness care versus wellness care yeah, that's right, um, and I think that you know part of what lynda does well and I've.
Speaker 1:All I've been able to experience and witness is a person comes in with severe conditions and with lots of symptoms that they're struggling with, but they come into an environment where they feel cared for. You cultivate a vision of what wellness can look like. Help them, take some of the initial steps towards being well and give them a plan for it to follow so that they can just keep working on that path. And it really is focused at wellness. Sure, we're assessing sickness and we're treating sickness. We're focused on wellness and that's where we want to go. And I think that that's a brain trick you've got to do in a culture and as a provider or a person that cares for people.
Speaker 1:It sounds simple, I think, but it's subtle in many ways and in my practice and I've seen it in the practice that you have there at Lender Center but it causes me to be creative.
Speaker 1:If I think something's getting stuck, I'm like all right, where's our path to wellness here?
Speaker 1:We're running into blockages here and we've got some limitations here and there are things that we can't do here. So where's this path forward that we can find so this person can return to life and have a shot at recovery, and when you ask those questions, you come up with things that may not necessarily just be obvious, and I think what you're doing is you're maintaining a culture there at Lender that causes people to be creative about ways in which a person can get well, because they really want them to do that. I really want you to get well, and that's something I hear repeatedly over and over, not only with your team, but from you and it sounds like from the leadership, not only with your team, but from you and it sounds like from the leadership. I've never met the Lindners myself, but I take it on good faith and love the center that they've created and I'm really appreciative of you taking the time with me today and just being the kind-hearted, warm-spirited person that you are leading the charge out there at Lindner Center outside of Cincinnati, Dr Grote.
Speaker 2:It has been a pleasure and a privilege to have you on the show. Yeah, it's been a real pleasure to talk with you about this too, Todd, and thank you so much for this opportunity and privilege.
Speaker 1:You're most welcome. Well, this has been Head Inside Mental Health with Todd Weatherly. Dr Grote's been our guest with Lindner Center of Hope. We look forward to being with you all next time. Take care Outro. Music.