Head Inside Mental Health
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and behavioral health expert hosts #Head-Inside Mental Health featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care.
Head Inside Mental Health
Toothpaste isn’t a Crisis: Blips, Bombs, and helping parents know the difference.
What if the most powerful trauma intervention isn’t a technique, but the moment someone finally feels safe with you? We sit down with Momentum Recovery's Executive Clinical Director, Caitlin Rainwater, to unpack how healing from co-occurring substance use and trauma often begins long before anyone tells their story. Caitlin shares why she starts with safety cues and steady presence, then layers in tools like Brain Spotting, EFT, and breathwork only when a client’s nervous system is ready to hold more. It’s not anti-technique—it’s pro-timing.
We also get practical about families. Many parents arrive in crisis, operating on anxiety and love in equal measure. Caitlin explains why a short, intentional pause in contact can disrupt entrenched cycles and create space for reset. From there, she teaches a simple but transformative frame: blips vs bombs. Not every missed appointment is a catastrophe; not every pang of discomfort needs rescuing. Recalibrating threat helps parents shift from constant pursuit to becoming a secure base—the dependable presence their emerging adult can move toward by choice, not pressure.
Caitlin reframes addiction as an adaptive survival strategy that made sense until the costs outran the benefits. That compassion opens doors to healthier regulation: breathwork to ride waves of sensation, experiential practices to build capacity, and a relationship that makes risk feel possible. We talk about building clinician confidence without clinging to a single modality, coaching parents to take small, safe risks that prove their child can cope, and using one person’s change to tilt an entire system toward healing. Join us for this conversation offering language and perspective for the recovery journey.
Hello, folks. Thanks for joining us on Head Inside Mental Health featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts, advocates, and professionals from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care. Broadcasting on WPVM 1037, the voice of Asheville, Independent Commercial Free Radio. I'm Todd Weatherly, your host, therapeutic consultant, and behavioral health expert. With me today is the lovely and talented Miss Caitlin Rainwater. Caitlin graduated, professional counselor from Georgia State University, Georgia Girl. I also have a master's degree from Georgia, and has been practicing as a clinician for 16 years. She is a licensed clinical mental health counselor, an addiction specialist, a licensed professional and certified substance use counselor, serving now as the executive clinical director for Mementum Recovery, Young Adult Substance Use and Cooccurring Disorders Treatment Program down there in Wilmington on the coast. The Cove being the women's program and the Creek being the men's. Caitlin has worked extensively in the field on improving mental health and co-occurring substance use disorders with adults and emerging adults. She views addiction from an attachment lens, valuing the importance of relationship and connection in the healing process. Caitlin is certified in brain spotting, has a training in EFT, experiential therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, and utilizes a variety of experiential techniques in her practice. Not shying away from the pain of the human experience. Her work with clients largely revolves around meeting them where they are and partner with them in walking through the healing process. Caitlin, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00:So uh, you know, I there are all kinds of places we can go. Um, I'm I'm a big fan of experiential use. I'm a big fan of, you know, it you've got brain spotting in there and ENFT and a lot of a lot of nonverbal ways of addressing trauma. Um, which frankly, these days I think is a trick you've got to have in your bag.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:People can't just start talking about trauma, you know what I mean? Like they need to be able to regulate a little bit first so that they can actually talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you can talk about it and and not too. So, you know, there's a way that we can talk about it, and there's it, it's it often requires more. It's a huge somatic piece, right?
SPEAKER_00:There's there's it's a nonlinear thing, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:So how like how do you do like when you've got folks that you're starting with engaging in a trauma process, they've got all kinds of messed up stuff that are in their background, lots of substance use, they're finally getting clean. Maybe they've been clean for a little while, their brain's still not quite right, you know, they've not fully regulated from coming off of substances and their experiences and everything else. Where do you begin? Like, how do you start with a person and find where to start with a person when they're coming to you like that?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I I I think with with a relationship, you know, I really strongly subscribe to the belief that we're wounded in relationship and we heal in relationship. And so I think that it's really, you know, people uh trauma survivors are looking for cues of safety. Who can I trust? Is this, you know, there's if we go in with an expectation, they're going to share these, you know, intimate parts of themselves just because that's that's that's typically false, right? And so I think that um approaching people with curiosity in relationships, a lot of uh, you know, especially the young adults that have been struggling, have they they come with a story that they've been told about themselves, right? And so I think in order to address the wounding and have any movement, any healing, any corrective experiences, we we really need to build a relationship and show up consistently and open and curious and in a lot of ways loving, right? Um, and and when that relationship is there, it I think is when it really opens the door to some of these, you know, call them, I don't not modality techniques. It's not a skill-based thing, but sometimes uh necessarily some skill is often required, but it's often some outside of the box really different ways to treat trauma. And if I'm gonna, you know, ask somebody right out the gate to lay on the floor and engage in some breath work that can be really powerful. I'm gonna scare them and they're gonna close off and shut down. So I think it's kind of often just as simple as I want to build some sort of connection with this person. I think that opens the door to being able to have some movement with trauma healing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I love that what you're saying about about there's a lot about technique. You know, people get excited about technique. There's a modality, or this is, you know, we're we're we're really into IFS, or you know, we're really into uh we're really into solution focused therapy or whatever it is. Like this is this is this is we're gonna hang our hat on this thing. Um and you're you're clearly not only very talented, but also, you know, multi-practice oriented. Like, oh, I've got a little bit, I can I've I've done this. I know how to do brain spotting, I know how to do NFT, I know how to do these things. I know I don't start there, and it's almost like as a as a person in your position, as a as a director of other clinicians, you maintain a large toolbox, and being able to use that toolbox is greater than the sum of its parts. What and and and I think that this is a journey that some clinicians miss entirely, um, and other clinicians spend a lot of time struggling with, but there are clinicians like yourself who get to this place where you're a master crafts person, right? You're a person who with a large toolbox, you know what tool to use. Well, I mean, you know, like you know what tool to use. It it's part of you, like it, you know, a person walks into your room and you and you really meet them where they are, don't give them more than they can handle, walk them, you know, walk beside them through this journey of healing and and just a little bit at a time. Is there a moment and there probably is many, but like, is there a salient moment in your growth and development as a clinician where that became that became the way that you practiced? Or were you a person who really kind of felt that way and you just put tools in your box? Like where where in your professional development did this kind of was this this nexus where you became skilled in the way that you are?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I I I think there's been many moments and they all follow kind of um some excitement or passion because I believe in something, right? And so kind of going back to what you said about the clinicians and the team that I help guide or lead, it's when somebody shows excitement or passion about something, I believe they are going to make that thing work in in helping clients, right? That it's it's oh, I'm trained in EMDR, so therefore that's what I'm gonna utilize and I'm gonna help people heal. And that's not necessarily the case, right? I think these skills often give us confidence because if somebody is discussing trauma and goes somewhere deep and I feel ill-equipped or that I don't have specific training, and what do I do? That's all about me. And so sometimes I do think the trainings, while so valuable because I've learned so much and experienced so much, I think it's often us building confidence to truly be present and see and hear and experience someone, regardless of where they are and what they're sharing, right? We have to we we have to be able to be there with them, you know. And so with that, a lot of these modalities give us the confidence to do that. And there's a piece of it absolutely, we need to learn and be trained how to utilize these these tools and do it safely. But um, whatever somebody gets excited about and whatever fits their personality is what I really support and push them towards because it's I believe it will work, right? Like um, I don't oh, I need someone to get trained in DBT. So will you go and do that? That's just not how it works. It has to be something that that is a part of that person and their personality. And um, then I believe, you know, pushing them towards anything that they show excitement or interest in. Um, but like those moments, honestly, it's like every time my mind is blown by something and I see it helping others and it's really exciting. I'll then be introduced to some other um, you know, a whole new world that I hadn't experienced. So we did an um integral breath integrated, integral breath training this past summer, a number of few of us um clinicians at momentum and just kind of, you know, mind-blown in a way that there's this other thing, as simple as breathing, that can bring such healing. And so that's uh incorporating pieces of of what I have felt work for myself, you know, or work on ourselves can never end if we are helpers. And and so I think a salient moment, I just think there's been several. Every time I learn more, and my mind gets kind of blown, and I'm like, wow, and get really excited and passionate. Then I bring that into my you know, the room with others, and and I believe that helps it work, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the the excitement and passion, you know, the uh we had Dr. Jack Henman on the show with Engaged Transitions out there in Utah, and he's a big guy about um you know, um your attachment style. And one thing he said to me that I thought was telling was that when they were examining, you know, their clinicians being affected with the clients that they serve and everything else, the it was the attachment style of the therapist that made more of a difference than it was than the attachment style of the client. And it was like wow, that's kind of a cool thing to notice. Um and it's almost like, you know, you've got we all know that therapeutic clients trust is the thing that serves people best in a relationship that involves you know therapy and health and you know, health and healing uh when it comes to the work that you do. How do you and I and I think anybody who gets into this work who probably ends up on your team already has an act for this, but how do you foster like building trust with clients, with your team? Like, how is that something that you foster and develop with the people that with the people that you know you supervise?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. And and I think it it's it's the same process, honestly, with clients or with anyone you're in relationship with. It's it's being that secure base, like it does come down to attachment. And I I tend to shy away from styles because it it gets a little bit black and white, and we have attachment strategies or attachment embedded patterns that we often, you know, implement in relationship. And I think that we, you know, and and to this day and in done a lot of work on it, I'm still up against my natural tendencies, right? And I don't know if I'd categorize my style. And it also translates to different relationships, you know, in in the way that we show up. But if we are unaware of our own patterns or strategies that we use to stay in connection or avoid connection, whatever these strategies are, then we can't necessarily work towards being that secure base for others, right? And so I think there's so many pieces that go into it, but it's consistency, it's it's hearing, seeing, being, you know, have holding people accountable, um, kind of that being that secure base, if someone's coming towards me, they're they're likely gonna know what what they're gonna get, right? Just that consistency overall. And with the team, you know, um, I would say that I I really do my best because if I'm not looking at myself in that relationship, then then I can't lead or guide. And I think the same thing with clients, right? If if a client walks into the room, we can diagnose and talk about their attachment style all day and what they need to do. But what we're missing is the experiential piece of doing it with them right there and now. Because we may be the first kind of secure base they've experienced, you know. Everyone's living with pain. If their parents weren't that, if they haven't experienced that, that in itself just being that in relationship with them can be really healing.
SPEAKER_00:So, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, categories can be useful, but you know, the uh Alan Watts uh quote, the menu is not the meal. Like you can't and I think you've seen this, I think we see it in uh treatment in some places where you've got somebody who's who's highly skilled theoretically, like they've had lots of training, they've got lots of degrees, they've got they've done, they've examined every method, but they're the worst therapist you've ever met. And it happens, and it's like, you know, without without a person kind of being a real person in this process, it doesn't work because connection is where the healing exists. And you know, and you bring up parents, and I think that's a good place to to to take this conversation a little bit because we get a lot of parents who listen. And I know that you guys are are are working with families pretty closely because you can't not in this work. Um and if and if you're not doing that, you're you're you're missing some of the boat here, right? So when you're working with parents, so this is you know, this is I don't know, the ten thousand dollar kind of topic. Um because parents they carry a lot of shame, you know, and they want to feel like they're good parents. One of the things I tell parents that I work with is they look, you left regular parenting long ago. Like whatever it is you may have done or not done when the child was, you know, growing when your child was growing up, somehow along the way they they cultivated a condition and they found their way to substances and now they're off the rails. And and being a parent to that child is different than anything you're probably gonna encounter in the normal world. So everybody needs help, first of all. When you're talking about relationship, and you know, suddenly this person is is coming out of some crisis situation, they're ending up in your care, they've got all this muck going on in their life, and then they're trying to kind of meet their parents in some place where they can pick up and carry on. Where how do you introduce that? Like, where does that begin? How do you introduce it? What does that look like, you know, in terms of as a practitioner, yeah?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great question. I think that um you you you pause, you take a break. Um, we very intentionally hope for about 30 days before having a client, you know, re communicate with their family system. Uh, you know, and this this isn't always gonna work perfectly, but if I don't take that break from this pattern of whatever, you know, typically dysfunctional pattern of communication and way of being in relationship, you know, parents are in sometimes having, you know, they they've been through a lot of trauma and and pain along this process, and and maybe waking up every day and fearing their child is gonna die, right? So therefore they're traumatized. The child is coming in with their own, you know, with a whole world of things, which, you know, who knows? That's that's the process of learning. We don't want to make assumptions, but they're in this cycle, right? And we are hoping to disrupt that cycle. And oftentimes it's a pause to do some self-reflection, figure out where we are at, the client and the family, where where are you truly at, and receive some some support, some attention, some tending to your own emotional process that's in crisis and chaos sometimes, you know? And so whether or not, you know, they're going, they're on a technology, detox and treatment, or you know, I think that there needs to be some sort of boundary and break in the current cycle in order to introduce change. Um, and then that, you know, and as a parent myself, you would go quickly to this place of shame, regret, should have done this. The reality is, although the parenting looks different on the surface, I truly believe it that thing that child needed, that younger child needed at 20, 25, 30 years, and they likely need the same thing, right? So it's it's it's almost helping parents understand that when you show up, like if you if you aren't addressing the trauma and what's coming up for you, then you likely can't give the kid the thing you're regretting not giving them when they were younger, right? If I am to be present and attentive and and hear my child or see them in a different way, then then I've got to be in a in an okay place. And so it's often helping parents understand that this healing that this is for you too. And the best thing you can do to help your kid is work on you and all the pain you're carrying so that you can show up and give them that thing you you wish you did or could have when they were five years old, right? Um, so it's really while it looks different on the surface, I think at the core, um, and on the most like basic level, parenting is gonna look similar regardless of the age of our children. A good parenting, in my opinion, right? This is my belief.
SPEAKER_00:And um the scene changes, but the principles are the same.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, and everything kind of leads back to that attachment and and and working on uh and being uh security for anybody in in you know in your family or anyone you care about.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I got a buddy who you know he's in recovery and he always says, like, my parents were great parents for somebody who's in recovery. Because they, you know, they set limits and they said no and they did all the things. It's like you know, it's almost it's almost like, you know, maybe you're a disaster when you're three. And a three-year-old disaster is pretty easy to contain, contain. It's pain, but it's pretty easy to contain. But maybe you were an easy three-year-old and you were an easy teenager, and somewhere along the way, you know, something occurs. It's not to say that parents I I think that that's a really uh good statement. That like the principles of parenting are are really the same, no matter how what what the age of the child is, ultimately. The the maybe the the sophistication of the message may change, but the principles are the same. You know, you say different things to a three-year-old than you do to a 21-year-old.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:But but you know, the parents have the shame about having not done something right and everything else. A lot of that lives in whatever thing that they couldn't take on board as a parent, like setting an appropriate limit or you know, being able to communicate clearly with your child or uh or connect with them and understand kind of where they meet them, where they're at, and what they need. Um and then they have to like I think the trouble, the the the hard part is is for a parent to have to learn that stuff when their child's like in their early 20s, when they're a young adult. Um because the consequences are so much greater, right?
SPEAKER_01:They're scarier.
SPEAKER_00:Um they're pretty they're pretty scary, and and yet at the same time, and this is something that I sometimes struggle with with parents. Um when we're working with them, it's like they want to prevent all risk.
SPEAKER_03:And I get it.
SPEAKER_00:I'm a parent, I'm a parent too. I you know, I I fear for the safety of my children constantly. Yeah, you know, because that's the nature of parenthood.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Um and you know, my kid still has to leave the house and drive away and you know, go to college and do all the things out in the the big wide world where all the nasties live. And I can't control any of that. The best I can do is prepare them and get them to a place where it is when parents have a child who has gone off the rails, um, that is now landed maybe in your care. You know, a lot of times we're trying to get them to you, right? So my problem's a little different. But asking, like, how do you ask parents to take risk with their child?
SPEAKER_02:So that's a really good question. And I think it almost goes back to what we were speaking about clients. I think there's a level of trust that you have to build with somebody. And that doesn't mean that's weeks and months and years of doing so, but building a relationship with that parent so as there's a level of trust enough for them to take that risk, right? Hey, I'm gonna do this with you. And truly, like, you know, if they're so far away from taking this risk, they're not gonna do it because I'm telling them to, hey, trust me. Um, you know, you can say no, or you can allow them to try this on their own for a night and it'll be okay, you know, because I I don't know that it'll be okay, but that in that risk taking, I think we are more likely to do it when somebody is right there with us supporting us, right? And and I trust that person has my best interest at heart. And so I think sometimes it's also getting them to take smaller risks and learn that it's okay. Right. So, like, you know, in the beginning stages of uh let's say, you know, a treatment like momentum, you're in in the beginning stages, and and the parent is someone so fearful of letting their kid explore the world and they're kind of super present. And oh, you need all of these toiletries and clothes, and I'm sending all of this stuff, and and I don't want you to get upset with me. Sometimes it's as simple as, what if you don't send anything this week? Right? Like let's that can feel like a big risk, right? And then they don't, and guess what? The kid is okay, and they figured it out and they asked others for help and they're doing just fine. Then it's like, oh, I did this thing that I that felt so hard and scary. And then sometimes it's that next risk of okay, you can now share your expectation that they're gonna stay for 90 days and commit to this, and that's where you are, and you need that. And that's so they take that risk. And so it's often just a an experiential process of taking risks, learning it's okay. But even in those smaller ones, I think there has to be a level of trust. You can't just come in and say, Well, I, you know, have this degree, so you should hold a boundary with your kid and not let them come home. That just doesn't work, and I why would it, right? It doesn't come on, no, and I think the relationship building with the parents, you know, we're we're all human and showing up for them in the same way that we do for clients with curiosity, with wanting to understand them. You know, we hear meet someone where they're at all the time, and I so believe that that's how we we help others, but how do I I can't make assumptions about where they're at? There's a process of learning and and someone showing you where they're at. And they show us sometimes in the most heinous ways, right? Like sometimes it's a really strong cry for help or trying to demonstrate, like have a need, it's not being met. And sometimes that looks like behaviors that push people away, right? And so, how do we respond to that? How do we learn more about the function of said behavior? So I think with parents and families, it's the same approach of of building a relationship, a connection, and earning their trust. If that answers your question.
SPEAKER_00:No, I yeah, absolutely does. I mean, it's it it doesn't surprise me that the the skills you bring to the work you do with the client is not different than the skills you bring to work with the parents, though their issues while joined are different. You know, they're they're they live on opposite ends of this coin or opposite sides of this coin.
SPEAKER_02:Um I yeah, yeah something, you know, and it's sometimes the the client, the identified patient, whatever you want to refer to them as, is more of the one calling attention to a really dysfunctional system, right? Maybe one of my parents is an active addiction and is functioning in the world, so there aren't any eyes on them. It's on me. And so, you know, the hope is uh in the environment that I work, right? Like in this could this could look a lot of different ways or this could um be different, but in this, you know, sometimes there there can't be the assumption that every parent is is is in a in better, you know, is functioning healthier and functioning better than the client that you're serving.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But the cool thing is we we pull the families in, we work with them, we support them, and we have opportunity because there's usually what I've noticed, there's always gonna be someone most ready and most willing to change, to make changes, to take these risks. And doesn't matter who it is, it could be mom, client, dad, whomever else is in that in that family system that starts making changes that inevitably throws the things off balance in the way that they were functioning, right? It in it You can't change one part of the system without changing the rest of it. Right, right. And every once in a while it is the client who who finds their voice, sets boundaries, or starts learning, you know, that they're they they do see their parent in a different lens and how much they love them or whatever it is, but there's going to be someone who starts making some changes and it inevitably helps the healing of the entire family. So not everybody has to be on board initially, but we have to engage and pull them in and help families feel a part of. That's what we want, right? Our client, our client comes in with a with a whole, you know, group of people, whether there's disconnect in those relationships or not, they they come to us and we really utilize those uh resources of the people who are in their life and and can kind of meet some of those attachment needs so they can heal.
SPEAKER_00:Sounds like you're you it's almost like you're looking for the the kick in the armor there, you know, that is the that is the protected family system, dysfunctional as it may be. Like, where is the spot that that we can start to put in some some healing and some resolution and some you know regulation, really? Yeah, I I have a I have a I'm trying to coin a term, so I'm gonna need your help. But like as an addictions person, you you know what you probably know what uh neurodendritic hypersensitivity is, um, which is you know the all pain's too much pain. But it you know, it's a medical term. It's for opiate addicts, like there's no amount of they they use opiates to solve all pain and and it just their sensitivity to pain grows and grows and grows, right? Um I I think that people do this emotionally. Yeah, there's a there's a there's an emotional uh, you know, it's a response, emotional response to pain and discomfort, hypersensitivity that they've cultivated over many years. And you know, it's like the risk thing with the parents. It's like they their child's discomfort, their connection to their child's discomfort is so dialed. Yeah, yeah, so sensitive. Like almost any discomfort their child experiences is too much discomfort for them to bear.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and I think that that's a really tough one to get through with parents.
SPEAKER_02:Uh absolutely, because if I don't send toothpaste, my child's life could end. It can feel that way, right? Like it had that that hypersensitive sensitivity you speak of, absolutely, it's almost having to re kind of um re-experience that baseline appropriate level of worry for my kid. And that's not overnight. So when they're like, Oh my god, you don't have this certain allergy medication for them, then what you know, it's like whoa, whoa, whoa. And it's not that simple of just calming them down and regulating them because their nervous system really feels like my child's life is in danger, you know. And so that I I don't know the term. That's that's a good one. I'll have to think on because it is
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we gotta come up with a good one, right?
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, yeah. No, that it in in how do you, you know, and there's uh gotta be a sensitivity in how you tell someone or or confront them with their being over, you know, uh and and I tend to be pretty direct because there's also a layer of big strong layer of compassion of you're living in this like you know uh state of of of you know uh a really scary place, we'll just say when he's a clinical term, of of oh yeah, fear over your child. And I get it, right? Anything you can do to save uh a life, and when it comes down to trusting others to do as good of a job as you, it just is a is a tough sell. Um and I think just it's about being compassionate to that and saying, yeah, hey, I noticed you're doing this thing, and it makes sense, like you make sense and trying to validate that because it over time, you know, yeah, and there that there's no it what typically happens with the attachment piece is if a parent is parenting in that way, their kid is going further and further and further this way, and there's this pursuit, and I have to save your life and I have to do these things, and there isn't any real genuine connection often. And a somebody may stay close to their parent because it's it's you know, if they're gonna do everything for me and make me most comfortable, I'm probably gonna allow them to, is often that kind of mentality around it. But at the same time, what's the depth and the emotional connection in that relationship? It's all about the stuff, right?
SPEAKER_00:And so yeah, I don't know if I uh, but well, it sounds like we could break this up into some layers, you know what I mean? Because a par a parent's worry, i at least as I understand it and view it and experience it, um, is stimuli driven. You know, child does something dangerous, you protect child, you know, it's stimuli driven. But when you've got a child who's a young adult and they're they're out in the world, you know what I mean? The there's no end to whatever stimuli. Like my child's always in danger, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and so, you know, they don't have their toothpaste or they don't have, you know, their iPad or their phone and they can't contact me, and they might not, you know, go to school next year, whatever it like, there's all these things that show up as the reason. But you what what you realize is this parent's just living in a constant state of hypervigilance. Yeah, like they're they're they're amygdala hijacked all the time about their child, and it's like so you feeling like you know, you having worry about the safety of your child is a legitimate worry. It's the worry of any parent and all parents, and that is and it's your job, and we understand that, and I get it, and I share it. We just need to reorient you to the appropriate stimuli. You can't worry about them all the time. I'm gonna give you the marker when you need to worry about it. Like if I get worried, and and that's the thing I have to do. I I I agree with you about building trust. I usually don't have as much time, and I'm like, look, I need you to borrow my neurological system for this one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If my red flag goes up, that's when your red flag can go up. But I oh, you know, let's let's work on reorienting this. And that, man, I tell you, that's tough work with with parents, and it's not a it's not a slow, it's not a like short journey either. Um with that, like what when you when you work with a family and you you know you're doing this slow roll, you know, you're building trust and you're getting there and everything else. Do you find that there's a common nexus, like the place at which parents get it? They start to take on change, they start to do things differently. Like is there is there a common moment and are there features, common features to that moment that parents share?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I think it is as soon as they recognize a sense of safety that their child is okay, and sometimes that's right, and then they shift focus to themselves. So I think that moment is I've been operating in this place of breath. And right now might be, you know, it if my if my child is if I can go to sleep tonight knowing where they are, and it gives, you know, it kind of lends to a sense of control that we're looking for when we're living in that state, right? Of okay, they're okay. So I think that that nexus that moment is as soon as I can focus on myself, see what's happening for me is when that change happens. Because oftentimes it's like, you know, a parent that's like, well, I'm doing all these things for myself, I'm going to yoga and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's it's slowing them down to truly be present with what is happening for them and tending to that. And that's what we're asking our clients to do too, right? You're not going to heal yourself through your child being okay.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um, in teasing out, uh, kind of going back to what you're talking about, it uh differentiating what is danger, what is not. It it Rick Um Barney and Gabby, his wife, um, she's a lot more than his wife, our executive director. Yeah, we do a presentation, and and I think they are the ones who coin the term blips and bombs. And so with these, with that kind of hypervigilance and that fear, it's what we're actually doing, and and what it sounds like you're doing is helping differentiate a blip from a bomb. So if my kid doesn't go to the dentist every six months, what might happen? Well, they might get a cavity and and they won't go. And okay, maybe they don't get it filled. And then what happens? So more of a blip, right? And if I call and say, hey, your your child left treatment, we don't know where they are, they, you know, took someone else's phone and maybe some cash on the bomb, right? That is something that, oh shit, like uh, okay, then then I'm gonna let you know, hey, this is this, you know, obviously, and in the in a common regulating way of okay, this is a bigger deal than that they didn't make a dentist appointment, right? So it's it's helping differentiate what is what is dangerous and what is okay. And it kind of helps, you know, we're we're essentially helping them um uh reacclimate and understand the difference between those, yeah. Yeah, a blip and a bomb. And um the the other question you asked about when do you see change? And I do think it's it could be on day one when I, you know, when I suggest that we've got your, you know, we've got your daughter, we've got your son, they're here with us. And you just it's it's through these assignments and through asking them to attend a family support call, attend an Al-Anon meeting and get back to me, attend, you know, and any every parent they want to focus on their child, and we we want to be okay through our children. So I think it's really helping them shift the focus to themselves. And when they do, they might be like, Oh, I'm not okay. I haven't been okay in a long time. And then they can start getting some of what they need if they seek that out. So that's the moment, I think. And it happens at various times, you know, and and hopefully at some point for every parent, and unfortunately, not every parent, but we really, really try because they're going through so much.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I had a parent, you'll love this. I had a parent call it DTSD as opposed to PTSD. It's not post, it's during trauma with stress disorder.
SPEAKER_01:Totally, totally. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they and that is it is, and it can be, you know, a for years. Um always go back to like the visual of a playground when our children are young, right? We have parents who they're up and they're climbing up these steps and and they they might fall. And we we a lot of us go there and we're just waiting and we're gonna catch them, or we're telling say, no, no, no, don't do that. That's dangerous. Don't do that, don't do that. You know, we're kind of following them around trying to to ensure safety. And then there are some parents who may be on the phone or in their own world, and their child's up climbing on the top of the thing, they're not paying attention. And then there's the parent, I think, that sits on the bench and we observe and we let that child explore because that's how they're going to learn. Humans are experiential learners, and those of us with older brains who want to tell all our kids to learn from our mistakes and not to do this and not to do that, and it doesn't work. So it's like the experiences people have are often the greatest teacher. And I think it's like uh allowing, you know, as much as we can, allowing our children to explore the world, and that gets really dangerous when they've got agency and free will and they're adults, right? But like that exploration with I'm right here because when you fall and you hurt yourself, what do they do? And the parent that's sitting on the bench just being attentive, they're gonna come to you. And we and as an adult or adult children, parents and their families are a resource that they will come to if we really practice that that, you know, being centered and grounded in okay, our children will learn, oh, I can go and I know what I'm gonna get, right? And my my mom's not following me around, making sure I don't fall, but also not neglectful in the way that they don't even know I'm up on the top of this playground at at four years old or whatever, you know. So so helping parents understand that when they are doing their own work, when they can be that that solid base, their kid is going to need them and come to them regardless of what age we are. And so it really starts with them understanding that piece and helping them see how that works in real time. And we experience that throughout, you know, fortunately when they're they're in treatment with you know, where I am right now, that we get a lot of practicing that of helping parents you know, practice what that looks like.
SPEAKER_00:I call it I call it standing still. Like as a parent, you gotta learn how to stand still.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and and let your child come to you. I mean, let them experience blips.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Be aware enough and dialed in enough to to kind of hopefully, you know, as a parent, you want to you want to prevent bombs. Sometimes they go off anyway, but you do your best, right? Um, and so I mean, be but being especially with young adults, like being the person they seek out for information, for guidance, for that kind of thing, if I do a lot of like giving it to them, they run away. Yeah, they can seek it from somewhere else. If I if I withhold it, you know, and I'm you know, it's not like I'm keeping it from them. I'm just you know, they they experience questions and they know they can come to me, I'm gonna give them answers, and along with answers, I'm gonna give them agency to make the decision. That one's a big one, you know. So it is and you know, it's easy to say in just a couple of sentences, but man, I tell you, for a lot of parents, it is so hard for them to take on board.
SPEAKER_02:It is there's not a there's there's not a switch, uh a magic birthday where all of a caught in switch also, oh my kid's an adult, so I'm gonna allow them to do these things. There's it's instinctual to protect and parent in the in the way that so many of us do, and all of a sudden, my I'm supposed to give my kid agency, free reign of the world. Like it's such a shift for parents, and uh uh sometimes it's a grieving process, and then it's the complicated factor of if if I have a kid in active addiction, like it is just it's a whole different ball game. And then my instinct is still there to protect, and and how much agency can I give somebody when they're making really terrible decisions? And so it gets really tricky. But there when it's instinctual, there's not a button that just turns it off because your kid's an adult and they should now go explore the world and make all their decisions on their own. So it's teasing apart. That's why that like emerging adult term really makes sense. And it's uh, you know, parents are emerging into new territory as well. How do I do this? Because my instinct says follow them around and make sure they don't fall, or it's too much for me to handle, I'm gonna go away. You know, we have to include the more avoidant or detached people who are also in pain. You know, we all do these ways of being in relationship, they serve a purpose and a function. And I and I believe that about addiction as well. So much shame. You do drugs, that's bad. Well, guess what? That it's adaptive, it's helping them survive.
SPEAKER_00:It then, you know, it's regulatory, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. They were actually there's just some brilliance there as I'm in a lot of pain, or something I there's something I can't be present for, so I choose not to be, right? It's it's it makes a lot of sense, and there's so much shame carried by those who use it. I'm like, okay, yes, you've caused a lot of damage, and it's kind of brilliant that you've survived to this point, you figured out a way to to get through, and and so it's really interesting to to see people kind of shift their the compassion towards themselves when they realize that.
SPEAKER_00:And now the concept consequences are getting a little they're getting heavy, and we're gonna need to find a new way. Good job, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, they've been heavy to this point, but they've been heavy, and you don't connect with that, you're gonna keep using. I mean, it's it's yeah, it's it's all survival, right?
SPEAKER_00:Essentially, you know, it's it's adaptive, paladaptive, but well, I mean, I think the the one thing that you're saying here, which is interesting, obvious and yet interesting to me, is that the moment that you give some space to the system, you know, where it's turn inward, the child turns inward. You give that system a break so that the you have to we're not severing the connection, we're just giving the connection a little break. You're pausing.
SPEAKER_01:We're pausing, it's too it's too fiery, often it's too uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's a bizarre form of exposure therapy. You're talking about self-exposure therapy, right? I need you to be exposed to your real self for a little while, actually. So we're just gonna do that.
SPEAKER_02:You got we have to figure out where you each are and and see how how we can um practice empathy for one another in a conversation or else nobody's hearing anybody. And it, you know, it it's it's interesting because you always you you learn a lot about the the family um pattern cycles of communication in that coming together, but the hope is that it's just not so heated and and you know everyone has a minute to breathe and and regulate to a degree to to uh be able to get in there and recognize these cycles and and help everybody uh shift because it's yeah necessary.
SPEAKER_00:And that's that's that's where we're headed for, Caitlin. Um it's been a pleasure. I love I you and I've gotten to hang out a little before. I love just sitting and chatting with you and nerding out about things and talking about stuff, but um, it has been great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining me. Uh this has been Head Inside. Oh, you're welcome. So welcome. This has been Head Inside Mental Health with Todd Wethley, Caitlin Rainwater, Clinical Executive Director for Momentum Recovery. Thanks for joining us, Caitlin. We'll see you next time.
SPEAKER_03:I'll feel so lonely and last in here, I need to fly our way home, I want to so load in the last in here, I can need to find our way home. I'll feel so lonely and last in here, need to fly my way home. I want to hold. I'll feel so lonely and last in here, we are, need to find my way home, I'll find my way home.