Head Inside Mental Health

Aftercare Coaching that Works Wonders

• Todd Weatherly

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When treatment ends, real life begins—and that’s where so many families feel alone. We sit down with Dave Herz, co-founder of Wonder, to unpack a practical, hopeful approach to aftercare that meets teens and young adults where they live: at home, at school, in the community. Dave shares how Wonder’s dual-coaching model pairs a parent coach with an individual coach for the young person, then brings everyone together for monthly in-home family sessions that reset expectations, strengthen boundaries, and rebuild trust.

Across the conversation, we tackle the questions parents ask home at night with their child... "How do I hold a boundary without blowing up the relationship? What do I do when my kid crumbles after PHP and sobs on the floor? How do we handle school refusal that has dragged on for months?" Dave explains why the first job, the first paycheck, and opening a bank account can be more powerful than a dozen lectures—and how stacking those “small” wins rewires confidence. We also address higher-acuity realities: suicidal ideation, recent attempts, and the fear that keeps parents on edge. With real-time coaching, young people learn to reach out before they spiral, while parents practice being steady and present without rescuing.

You’ll hear candid stories, clear tools, and a throughline of hope grounded in experience: boundaries that stick, rapport that’s earned, and momentum built one doable step at a time. If you’ve wondered how to translate residential gains into a life that works at home, this is a blueprint for confident, compassionate next steps. If this conversation helped, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Meet Dave Hurz And Wonder

SPEAKER_00

Hello, folks. Thanks for joining us on Head Inside Mental Health, featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts, advocates, and professionals from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care. Broadcasting on WPVM 1037, The Voice of Asheville, independent commercial free radio. I'm Todd Weatherly, your host, therapeutic consultant, and behavioral health expert. It is my pleasure to welcome Dave Hurz to the show, friend, colleague, conspirator to make the world a better place. Dave is co-founder and clinical outreach with Team Wonder, an individual parent and family therapy and coaching program that serves clients across the country on site, in their homes, and in communities, offer to offer support from those who often have re-ent re-integrating from community into community after residential treatment. So I know that you see a lot of those folks coming into your program. Dave has been a pioneer in community-based support for teens, young adults, and their families for over 25 years. That means you're younger than me? I don't know about that. With the background in education and psychotherapy, Dave began his career as a high school teacher at a small alternative high school in Boulder, Colorado, rooted in connection and mutual respect between students and staff. That spirit of authentic relationship building has guided his work ever since in 1998. He became the first hire at one of the country's earliest residential transition programs for young men ages 18 to 25. There, he discovered a deep passion for mentoring, emerging adults, and supporting families navigating complex transitions. In 2000, Dave founded Confident Living, a groundbreaking non-residential program for teens and young adults. Returning home from treatment, this program later became Vive Family Support Program, which, under Dave's leadership, expanded to nine cities nationwide. Laid the work for the foundation of much of what he does now, considered best practice in aftercare and wraparound support. Then, after helping lead and grow yet another adult program, Dave reconnected with two former colleagues to found co-found Wonder, combining decades of experience with renewed focus of creativity, flexibility, and deep family engagement. I think that's probably the deep family engagement part is that's tricky, but if you don't have it, it doesn't work. Dave, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm so glad that you were able to make time in your busy schedule serving families across the country. Um you, I you know, you and I, when we get together, it's hard for us not to just like gab our way through, you know, the past of treatment, the future of treatment, what's going on currently. And that's what I love about you. And um I think that Team Wonder probably represents a service in the world that uh there's not enough of. Uh and and frankly, at at various ends, it's great for families that are returning from that might be returning from treatment and reintegrating, but it's it's also good for families that might be on the cusp of needing treatment, but if they had that little bit of extra support in community, they might be able to work it out differently. Um when you've got families that are that are kind of gone through what I call the gauntlet of treatment, and maybe they've, you know, they finally left, landed on something that worked well, and they finally got the family coming in. Like, tell me about the model. You've got, you know, the 25 years of experience and many programs at this point in time. What is the model that you've landed on that you use there at Wonder?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and you know, it's I'm kind of happy to say in the 25 years of doing this, it's it's certainly evolved a little bit, but the core of what we do hasn't changed a lot. And I like that because I still feel like it works. I'm still passionate about it. And especially, you know, if you have a family that's gone through the gauntlet and you have a kiddo who's done well in a residential treatment and coming home, that that, like you had mentioned, that's kind of where we got started. Um, and we do work with families with kids who haven't gone away yet at all. But when a kid's coming home from treatment, our model is basically, and we tailor it to each family's needs, but the general model is the family gets, it's a family program, and they get two coaches. And all of our coaches are clinicians, but we call them coaches because we're doing more than just in-off. In fact, we don't even do in-office therapy. There's a lot of real-world stuff going on. So we use the term coaches. The parents get a coach, a parent coach, and the kids get a coach as well. We call an individual coach. These are two separate coaches on our team working together to support the family. And the parents are typically working with their coach uh virtually, because parents, it's just easier for them to meet virtually, but that it is a local parent coach, and they're working on, and so they're working on a lot of stuff. They're working on managing their own anxieties, not falling into old behaviors that they were doing before their kids went away, um, helping them stay in relationship with their kids as they return home, and helping them with boundaries and home agreements if they need them. And while that's happening, the kids have a coach, and again, that's we're really working with them on taking what they've learned in program and helping them apply it in the real world. So they're meeting in person and um they're out and about doing whatever it is that they need to be working on, whether that's finding a job, working on finding a healthy social group, uh, working on anxiety issues, all sorts of things. But they have this side-by-side coach that's working with them in real time. Um, and then the third component of our model is family work, which you were hinting to. It's probably the most difficult, and I agree with you, it's probably the most important. And in our model, both of those coaches, the parents coach and the kids coach, we come together once a month minimum into their home uh with the whole family and do family sessions. That's our model in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00

And and when you do the family sessions, I know you got a lot of interesting ones out there, and the thing that I see on my end, because a lot of times we're we're this front end, right? And all the uglies are there. Uh emerging family dynamics and the kids' anxiety or whatever it is, they're they're all kind of front and center, and they start to do some of the work. And then different programs have various levels of family support. You know, some have a real engaging kind of family and robust family program, others they tip a hat to it, but they don't really kind of step full into giving the family the kind of support they need. So you're catching people at at all of these levels. When when families, when a family gets to this place where they know something, you know, they don't know nothing now. They've been through an experience, they want it to be different, they recognize some of the work is on them to do. What's the first hook? What's the first grab for a family that really makes them, you know, kind of like invest in the work that they need to do as an entire family, not just like my kid needs help and all that kind of stuff. Like, what's the hook for moms and dads that you think really gets them invested?

Getting Parents To Buy In

SPEAKER_02

That's a good question. I'm hitting, I think right from the get-go, it can start right in the admissions process. And um, you know, a lot of families, a parent will ask what your success rate is, which is a fair question. Um, it's difficult to answer. I mean, I don't we don't have data. It's been very hard in the in the you know, the home, non-residential wraparound world to measure. But what I can tell parents in admissions, which I do a lot of admissions and been doing it 25 years, I can tell them I I don't have exact data, but what I can tell you, the more you as parents participate in this program, the higher our success rate will be. And that's just I just know that. And then I'll take it a step further, which is, and that's not just working with your parent coach, but also showing up for the family meetings and committing to those. Our success rate goes up. So I think that's the first hook that uh gets parents to buy in. And like you um said, some of these parents have have had their kids in programs where they have been doing some work, which is great. They're a little easier to hook. Some parents who haven't really done any work and it's been all on the kid, it might be a little harder. But I think if we can really let them know that if you want your kids to succeed, you need to participate and participate in the family sessions, it gets them more motivated to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And you know, I wonder if you see this. I'm sure you do, and and maybe it's hard to pin down, but where's the aha moment that happens for families in your mind? Like, you know, it's like you get their investment, they participate in everything else, but there's there's the turn, right? There's this moment where moms and dads are like, oh wow, like in your experience, what's the most common aha that parents like where the I just didn't realize, even though it they were educated about it, they were told about it. What's the where where's the aha territory that you see most families get?

SPEAKER_02

Where you let me just clarify. So I mean uh when they're working with Wonder where they have an aha moment where they're like, oh, I see what this program is about, I'm really bought in now.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and that and I see what my role as a parent needs to look like as well. You know what I mean? Like, where's that where's that groundbreaking moment where their feet finally touch the ground about this thing, you know?

The Power Of Boundaries And Wins

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, got it, got it. It's a good question. So I would answer that latter question. It's usually when we can support when the parents, this is just one, but it's pretty common. When the parents have been working with their parent coach and they've held a boundary, and by holding that boundary, they see something positive happen in their child. You know, for example, um, and this is a very simple one, but helping a parent hold a boundary of we have a young adult that would be good for him to find a job. Maybe they've dropped out of school, decided they don't want to, or they got their GD, it's time to work, but they have no move motivation to get that job because their parents are giving him too much money. And so the kids don't have to face that fear, and they're like, This program's not working. And we say, Hey, listen, we need you to stop giving allowance to your son. And by the way, I'm not saying that's easy because it's not, but they have so they're always easy. It's oh yes, I should say it's simple, but it's not always easy because it's a pattern. So if we can support the parents creating enough relationship, they trust their parent coach that they're willing to hold that line, because you know the kids are gonna be upset and they're gonna try to manipulate uh and and get that back, because the kids don't want to face their fear of going to get a job. So, and this is a true story, but hold being and and when we tell parents, look, I need you to hold the line and guide them to how you're gonna approach that, but then say, I'm available to you in between our session if you need support in holding this line, right? And so we had a parent who was holding the line, texting me, like he's coming at me, he's telling all these things, I don't think I can do it. And we just say, You can do this. Just say, I'm not giving you any more allowance. You can work with your wonder coach to find a job, right? And then they hold that line and don't give in to their kids, and then the next thing they see is the next day or whatever, next couple days, they meet with the kid meets with his coach and they're out job hunting. That's an aha moment for the parents, and actually it's a it's it's a confidence-building moment for the parents. So, you know, I always say we're a confidence-building program, not just for the kids. So, um, and then you have a kid now who has gone and gotten a job and feeling really good about themselves, and they're not mad at their parents for creating that boundary. In fact, now because they feel good about themselves, because they've had a success, they're much more open with their parents. And all of a sudden you see relationships start to get better. So I think for a parent, if we can help them uh build confidence in some way, and a lot of that is in the beginning holding a boundary.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I I had this experience with a family I've been working with, and you know, there's um suicidal ideation stuff that we see our young adults and um and adolescents deal with a lot of these days, and you know, had a hospitalization and all that. And um, we're getting to the other side and we're we're starting to hit the the kind of more of a transitional end, still a lot of clinical care, but we're we're we're touching back home, doing some integration work, going back to school, etc. And I I texted the mom one night. I said, Look, you the the big challenge for parents in this stage is is really knowing the difference between being trusted and being liked. And you know, he'll throw a bunch of stuff at you that make you feel like you're not liked, but your job is not to be liked. That's right. Your job is to ensure the safety of your child. And so part of that means some of this work, and part of that means he's gonna be uncomfortable, he's not gonna like decisions that you make, you know, calls you're gonna make, uh, guarantee his safety, and so on. Like, and that was a just saying that was a moment for her where it was like, oh, oh, like there's a difference between these two things. Yeah, and it and as you like, just like the story you're telling, the the the result was is that the trust wasn't compromised. He still felt safe around his parents, yeah. Uh still felt like they were people that were taking care of him, but he also had to turn to his providers and be like, now I've got the work to do, how do we do this work? Um exactly. The other one I'd love to hear your feedback on is the same scenario. Um, kid goes to uh some first days of PHP uh where they're you know he's already done some intense work, but then they're they're starting to dig in and they're starting to like do some of the nitty-gritty and develop a relationship, and it's a new clinical relationship and everything else. Comes home at night and is is just crying in the floor, you know, just the day's been that hard for him. And mom's trying to do the comfort thing, mom and dad are trying to do the comfort thing. How do a comfort and it's like you can't. He the what he's doing right now is actually really good. It's horrible. I know I know it's painful for him, but the the only place where you can find this magic, this magic place where self-regulation and self, you know, self-reliance and all these other selves you might put into the equation come, is they come on the other side of what he's going through right now. And the only way out is through. And the the truth is that if he's actively feeling this stuff, he knows what it is, he's probably really safe right now, actually. Um, and you can be available for him, but you know, the truth is that he's got to move through it on his own and and develop some of that stuff. When you see, what does it look like in the programming? Because I know you're you're in communities, you're in homes with these guys. What does that stuff look like? What are the processes that you see kids going through when they kind of step into this transitional environment, both good and bad? Like where what is the what is the what is the the threshold that they cross through? What are the behaviors you see? What do you see parents dealing with? If you've got some fun stories, I'd love to hear them. I know you do. I know you've got a couple.

SPEAKER_02

I got a few. You mean when they're returning home from program or just whenever they're joining us?

SPEAKER_00

When well, when they're joining you, you know, and like it's a new day. You know, your team represents a new day for these for these kids. And it doesn't always go over smooth. You don't expect it to. Like, where's this? Where are some of these threshold behaviors that you see, these markers that you see kids going through when they return back home?

SPEAKER_02

Ah, it's a good question, too. And by the way, I will also say before I address that, that you just brought up we we kind of covered the gamut, like, you know, 25 years ago, yeah, I mean, we're still helping people find jobs, but 25 years ago, the focus was on some substance abuse. Um, and then you were building confidence through job hunting and stuff like that. And now, fast forward to today, we're and I think we could all agree we're seeing a lot more clinical kids, a lot of suicidal ideation. 100% right, and a lot of kids who are coming into our programs are probably uh you start to work with who've had suicide attempt attempts and some significant. So this isn't common today.

Suicidality, Safety, And Real-Time Support

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, this is your kid. Yeah, it's scary stuff for families like it's the but this is your kid now, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, this is your kid, and like you just you'd be a good parent coach with Wonder. Um, because you do have to let your kids go through it, right? And it's really hard to watch that and not want to fix it. But that that never works, right? And if you can just really just empathize with them and let them go through it, it's a really important catharsis. And I think what we'll see sometimes in our model, which can make parents feel a little bit better if it's they're having epic meltdowns or it's scary, is that um my hope is that that kid, because he has a really good relationship with his coach, he'll reach out to his coach and say, I'm having a really crappy day. Right? And instead of going to parents to fix it, just like, yeah, for him. And so that coach can show up, and that coach isn't gonna fix it either, but at least be right there, you know. Um, and you know, I've had parents call up their parent coach going, I don't know where my son is. I know he had a bad day at school, now he's disappeared. I am absolutely freaking out. And that parent coach then calls the kid's coach who's like, I'm with Jimmy right now. Yeah, he's having a bad day, but we're together, we're working through it. Well, you could imagine a parent, right? Just like, okay, I can breathe. I know that that coach isn't fixing his problems, but he's guiding him right now or her, and that can really help parents manage their own anxiety too.

SPEAKER_00

So and they need an anxiety break, like is the whole the level of anxiety they experience at these uh the kind of little moments. I can't, where's my son? They had a bad day, you know, they're they're upset in the room, whatever it is. Like, yeah, they're they're really attached to this experience, and they're hijacked. Um I think getting past be getting past being hijacked is is it's tough for a parent. I call it warrior work, right? Yeah, I mean yeah, it is warrior work. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then when you know I first started doing this work, I only had little little kids. I didn't fully understand what they were going through. You know, I've got older kids now, I completely understand what they're going through and have mad respect for them. And I think it's important as we're working with parents to respect, you know, they're not giving up on their kids. They may not be, might need different tools, but boy, they're showing up. And so we got to just help them.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Well, and I I said, you know, it's I know it's difficult not to pick up the phone when your kid is calling you incessantly. Right. But I mean, you know, my kid calls, trust me. I that that phone, I've I've picked up that phone inside of the first ring, possibly too. Yeah. Um, fortunately, my kids are, you know, they're they're in a space and they're doing pretty good. But um, I know what it feels like to have to be worried as a parent. Yeah, and I can only imagine the level of worry as a parent that you're experiencing now after all this, you know, this heartache that you've been through and this this terror, you know, my child is in danger, the terror that it causes for a parent. I've I've seen some of that, I've experienced myself. I don't envy it for parents when they have it. So I think that's a you know, that's another brings me to another part of the work. And tell me a little bit about how you approach parents like this. You know, the the other thing that they do is they get really hard on themselves. It's like, yeah, oh, I've done, you know, I've done terrible, and you know, there's all this kind of like beating yourself up about it. It's like, look, first of all, you know, this is not normal parenting. No, you you have a child who's suffering from a condition that went through some stuff, and we left the normal parenting model a long time ago.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So you you you made it up the best that you could, you didn't do everything right, but we're not looking at it in that frame. You're showing up as a parent and you're trying to do the best for your child now. What is it that you, you know, if you're going to give parents a message on the front end of this process of working with a child who's got a condition that is causing a lot of problem, hospitalizations and treatment and all these other things, medication management, etc. Like, what's a hopeful message that you try to give families when you see them on the front end of that stuff? Because I know you've been there.

Building Confidence Through Small Successes

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And again, it just comes with it's helpful when you've been. Do in a long time because you've seen successes, right? So I can sit down with the parent in the emissions process, and lots of times I try to do those meetings over video so we can look each other in the eye. And one, empathize. And two, and I try not to overstress this because when when it's you know, which is parents do need sometimes to learn how to take care of themselves and restore their own batteries and self-nurture. I don't like to overdo that because when they're in that stress space, they're just kind of like, you know what, stick it. I need my kid to feel good before I can feel good. I get that too, but we're gonna have to help them to self-nurture a little bit. Right. Um, you know, but I really let them know, depending on what it is, and you know, usually it's something that we've seen before, that we've worked with before, and that we've had success. Now, not with every family, but I can look a parent in the eye and say, look, I know that your son, yeah, I know that your son has suicidal ideation. I know that he had a suicide attempt three weeks ago. I know he's really struggling socially at school. Uh, and dah, dah, dah. And I want, you know, we've worked with kids like your son, and I've seen it work. And I really look at them there like, and I've I want, you know, that I am just this is not a line. Now I can't guarantee it's gonna work with you all, but again, the more that you all as a family can come to the table and you guys can show up and we're gonna support the hell out of you, we have a really good shot to help your child. And I think that helps parents knowing that we've worked with kids like theirs.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. Well, and and that there's I think that the a lot of the mental health treatment world that isn't that hasn't participated at the levels, you know, the private pay world and you know, where we see really good treatment take place and programs like yours come in and provide a lot of good support because you know, when they integrate home, that's where the rubber meets the road, really. Right. Um, if if you haven't seen any of that stuff, and all you've seen is like hospitals and community mental health, that's right. Like, you don't think anything else is possible. You don't like you don't have a you don't have a model for what that's supposed to look like. Right. Um, and to have someone like you say, look, I you know, sure, in a world there's no guarantees, this is behavioral health, things can go awry, but we've seen it work before. We know the we know the markers, we know the tools, we're gonna give you those tools. Like what is it, what what kind of change do you see in parents' attitude when they start to cultivate hope? What is it what do you get to see on your head?

SPEAKER_02

In the in the family system? Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, start with the kid. So if we kind of go back to that 18-year-old who had dropped out of high school, failed the GE test and said, screw it all, you know, right. Um, and said, I'm not gonna get a job because they're all stupid. Well, that was just fear, right? So um where I saw with that family was first of all, as a and so back in the old days, I was the coach, right? So I'm working with this kid. The parents did hold the line and cut his allowance. So he was really motivated to get a job. And the reason was is because he had this car that he loved. And if he didn't have money, he wasn't able to put, you know, I it was like this old dot. Do you remember the it was an Acura Integra? Do you remember those at all? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And he had look, I know the Acura Integra. I mean, those are good, they were they were speed, they were sporty little cars, you know.

School Refusal And Patience In Practice

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and he this is a high school kid, was like way into this and putting money into it, and so um, but you know what he he has serious anxiety. I mean, this keto had serious anxiety, that's really what it was. Sweetheart kid adopted from age age six from Korea and just had massive anxiety, and so I started, I built a relationship with him, and that you a lot of times with I don't know, for me working with young adult boys, it was always around food. Let's go get something to eat, you know? Yeah, and so I he was a great athlete in high school, really good athlete. So long story short, and I knew he didn't want to be around crowds. So his we we are were we started applying and he got a job, which was a big deal for him. He was running the scoreboard for adult softball leagues in Boulder, and he literally sat in this little shed and out in the scoreboard in center field all by himself. But he no stress, right? Right, doesn't have to interface with the crowd, you know. Yeah, but he was that he was feeling good, right? And the parents were shocked that he had a job. But where it really took the next turn was he called me up. This is what made me so happy. First that he could so we weren't texting in 2000, I don't think. No, we weren't texting yet. Barely not not really. I don't think we were so he calls me up, he's like, Dave, I'm like, what? He's like, I got my first paycheck. Like, that's awesome. So, okay, so here's another success, right? He got a paycheck. He's he's beaming, he can hear it through the phone. But then his next word is what do I do with it? Right? And I'm like, you put in your bank account. He's like, well, I don't have one of those. So my next thing is I'm all about building successes, right? So I'm like, well, let's go get one. Are you available now? He's like, yeah, like I'll pick you up. We'll go to the bank, we'll open you up an account. So again, we're just like, I'm not doing it for him, but I'm right there. Like, let's go in the bank and we'll open so again, boom, there's another success. And I and I kid you not, though. One of the things the parents kind of wanted, but again, I told them, don't put your agenda on him was to go get his GD and go to college. Well, he had no interest in that, I thought. But after this day where he's had these successes, literally, as we're driving to the bank, he said to me, I'm ready to take the GED. Which was pretty cool, right? And I'm like, Great, call him up right now. I mean, so we called up Front Reach Community College right there and set a time for him to go in to take it. So all these things I learned success builds success, builds confidence, builds confidence. And the parents along the way, even before having to do any more parent coaching, just by holding that line of cutting the allowance, look at these successes we've built. And now this kiddo, what I started to see was having a much more open relationship with his parents because he felt good about himself. Um, and I think the parents had learned this is a thing I need to remember is I can hold the line. My kid's not gonna go off the rails. And if he does, Dave's there, right? You know, for now. And I'm not gonna, you know, and I'm not gonna lose that relationship. So I think these are the markers that what and again, whether it's job hunting or dealing with suicide ideation or dealing with high functioning ASD, dealing with epic meltdowns in the house, dealing with substance abuse, uh school refusals, school refusal, which right, which is super popular right now. It's happening a lot, right? A lot. And again, I sometimes I have to kind of support parents. I can't, we're probably not gonna be able to get him to go to school tomorrow. We got to build a relationship, but if we can build that relationship and help them start feeling good about themselves, something could be totally unrelated to school. You know, maybe this kid hasn't left his room in six months, and we're just gonna go get breakfast. But again, if our goal is to get them to school but build confidence, then that all plays into it, and I need their patience. But the day that we feel like they're ready, we can have a coach show up and be like, I'm picking you up tomorrow at eight, we're going.

SPEAKER_00

Going. Yeah, well, and I I think you're you know, if we examine this topic we've been hitting, first of all, you know, it's like you've got experience of seeing people have success. There's the first marker for hope, right? You have a and you have examples and you've seen the people go through their process. So families know that it exists. Right. That's just to have a concept. You need a concept, right, of what success might look like. But then, you know, you you develop a relationship and you get in there with a family and you're working with a family system, the kid, the family, and everything else, and then you find this place, this opportunity that you have for a first success. Right. And and and if you got that chance, like in this case, like you not only had a first success, but you had the chance to follow it up with an immediate second success. That's right. And so there's this, there's this, there's this seizing opportunity aspect that families without support don't necessarily, they're not either they're not privy to, like kids not telling them. Um, because they haven't established the trust and the communication dynamic and everything else. They don't have support, so they don't get to they don't know where the gaps are. They don't see them in the gaps. You do. Um, and then you're also not mom and dad. So there's this place where it's like, hey, I want to share something. It's like, wow, the kid didn't realize how big a success it was.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think he probably did until you were like, hey, well, let's go open that bank account. And it's like all of a sudden he's got enough. And it, you know, I wouldn't link job and bank account to taking GED necessarily in my mind, but he did.

unknown

Yeah.

Hiring For Intuition And Authenticity

SPEAKER_00

And it's like, then you get the magic. That's and that's what I'm talking about. Like, there's there's these magic moments that happen when you work with somebody. It's the whole reason we do it, right? It's like it keeps it keeps us going. Absolutely keeps us going. So yeah, I I you know, in in terms of making programs like this work, it um it's kind of programming without walls.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so you've you gotta have a lot of intuitive gift that's like, hmm, I could smell it, something's happening, I could smell it, something that's happening, or there's an opportunity here. And I I think with 25 years in the in the game, I I've got 30, but not in the same way. And that doesn't mean that I'm older than you are. I just want to point that out. You definitely don't look older, look way younger than me, man. See, I'm just trying to keep it young. Dad was a babyface, right? Um, but like there's this you develop a sixth sense. Well, that's what's going on.

SPEAKER_02

You're I really appreciate you bringing that up because I've learned that too in the 25 years doing this, and when we when we're hiring coaches for the kids, is you can't teach that intuitive piece you just mentioned. You either got that and you don't. And I'm looking for people that have it where we can give them permission to use it. And I've took me a while to figure that out. I thought you just can coach anyone to have that kind of sense of all right, well, maybe yeah, you know, uh how to connect, how to, oh, maybe we should go do a softball job, or I should show up here. You're exactly right. You need to find people who have a therapy degree, but also know how to intuitively connect with kids and then have these ideas on how to build confidence.

SPEAKER_00

It is not everybody with a therapeutic degree has that either. No, they don't. Yeah, it's very true. That's that that's another show. We could spend time on that on another show.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I will say though, that if we do have sometimes if you know, I have to remind coaches like you you need, especially in the first month, you need to leave your therapeutic toolbox on the shelf. This is all about connecting with kids, and they're gonna test you. And you need to pass the test before you can even consider maybe doing any kind of therapeutic type.

SPEAKER_00

You don't have a tool for that. That's right. That's right. That's if you show up genuinely and authentically, then that's gonna be it. And that's right. Um, I think there's some of us we just don't know any other way to show up, so that works. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Um, so you know, don't start pulling out all your tools first because they're gonna skip past all those and go straight to your spine, the core of your existence. That's exactly right. Figure out if you're for real. Got that right.

SPEAKER_02

And if you're not, I promise you they're not showing up for the next meeting.

Closing Gratitude And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. Well, I you probably agree with this statement, but my my first job coming out of college was working with um at-risk youth, young boys, court referred, you know, the old days, 90s, early 90s. And um I always say this as like, you know, I've got a master's degree, I've got all these years of experience and everything. It's few people that taught me more than those boys did. Yeah. My first two years in the field. Right. I could I can reflect on a few experiences that were more educational than that right there. I couldn't agree more, man. Couldn't agree more. Dave, it's always good to see you, man. I'm so glad that you were able to make time to be on the show today. Dave Hurz with Team Wonder. Um, thanks for joining us. Uh, this has been Todd Weatherly on Head Inside Mental Health, WPVM 1037, the voice of Asheville. Dave, we'll see you again soon. I hope thanks for doing all the good work you're doing.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, Todd. It's an honor to be here.

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SPEAKER_01

I need to find my way, oh, I want to be home. I feel so lonely and last in here, I need to fly my way home. I feel so lonely and last in here, skill beyond, need to fly my way home, I want. I feel so lonely, you'll lust in here, scalpia, need to fly my way home, oh fly my way home.