Recovery isn't just sobriety it's an Operating System Upgrade

What if the missing link in recovery isn’t motivation, but a map? We sit down with recovery advocate and addictions counselor Mo Rhode, operations and outreach lead at Insight Recovery in Asheville, to trace the real paths people take from hospital stabilization to lasting change—and why too many fall through the cracks. Mo brings a rare blend of professional know‑how and lived experience, sharing how she walks into overburdened hospitals, time‑strapped clinics, and isolated private practices with a simple offer: kindness, clarity, and concrete next steps.

We unpack why substance use almost never exists without a mental health component, and how removing alcohol or drugs doesn’t resolve the deeper patterns driving reactivity and avoidance. From the science of brain change and epigenetics to the day‑to‑day work of therapy, groups, and structure, we look at what truly sustains recovery after detox. Mo’s story charts the shift from reactive to rooted—how abstinence became her operating system, not a punishment. She reframes “sensitivity” as strength, explains why treatment is anything but coddling, and offers a powerful message to parents: leaving to heal can be the most courageous way to return whole.

Along the way, we confront silos between hospitals and community resources, highlight practical differences between detox, residential, PHP, and IOP, and share how outreach can reduce readmissions by turning a crisis handoff into a warm connection. If this resonates with you, follow the show, share it with someone who needs a map, and leave a review to help more people find real pathways to recovery.

Transcript

Meet Mo Rhodi And Her Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, folks. Thanks for joining us on Head Inside Mental Health, featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts, advocates, and professionals from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care. Broadcasting on WPVM 1037, The Voice of Asheville, Independent Commercial Free Radio. I'm Todd Weatherly, your host, therapeutic consultant, and behavioral health expert, and it is my pleasure to welcome my friend and recovery advocate, Mo Roadie. Mo is the operations and outreach manager at the Asheville Insight Recovery Center, where she oversees daily operations, collaborates closely with the clinical team to ensure quality and ethical care, and works directly with clients through support services and group facilitation. She is a CDAC, certified alcohol and drug counselor, and herself a person in long-term recovery. Mo is deeply passionate about helping others navigate their healing journey. Her personal and professional experience led her to Asheville, North Carolina, where she found both recovery and her calling to support others in overcoming substance use disorders. With a strong background in education and outreach, Mo actively builds relationships with treatment centers, community organizations, and recovery networks working to expand resources and access to care for individuals seeking recovery. She's committed to bridging gaps in treatment and ensuring individuals and families receive support, education, and the guidance they need. Mo is currently pursuing her master's degree in social work at the university at UNC. Wait a minute, UNC what, Mo? UNC. UNC Charlotte. Okay. See us UN US UNC other people. We got to stick together. UNC Charlotte, further strengthening her ability to advocate for and empower individuals on their recovery journey. Mo, uh, as usual, I love seeing you. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. It's always great to see you, Todd.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Well, um, I know that you're out traveling. Where tell us where you're at right now. You're you're you're on the you're on the road doing the outreach thing. So where are you at today?

SPEAKER_04 2:01

I am on the road right now. I am in Raleigh, North Carolina. So I split my time between Wilmington, North Carolina, and Asheville, where the treatment center is. And so today I am slowly making my way back across the state. So I'm in Raleigh now and then um headed to Hickory uh and then back to Asheville. So just visiting some hospitals, checking in with some social workers, um, just connected with a great therapist out here and seeing her new practice. So yeah, just seeing everything that's out here throughout our whole state.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Tell me a little bit, uh we got a couple of things I'd like to ask you about, but tell me a little bit about that at that end of the outreach world. Like, you know, when when I think about it, you know, people people who come to a therapeutic consultant are trying to find resources like yours. You're trying to go to places that are looking for resources like yours, but probably don't know about them. I think one of the biggest issues we have in the treatment world is, you know, places like hospitals and outpatient centers and and private providers, they don't know what's around them. Um, so part of your job is to like make them aware that there are resources for good resources for treatment and for people to find recovery and everything else. What does the world look like out there to you right now as you do outreach? What is it, what is it, is there changes? Do you see positives? What are the negatives? What like what's it look like to you?

Hospitals, Bottlenecks, And Resource Gaps

SPEAKER_04 3:28

You know, I think um I'm very grateful to to have this aspect of my role where I actually do get to go into um to the hospitals and and meet with therapists. I'd say hospitals specifically, you know, going in there, um they are so limited on support and and resources and time that, you know, going in. And my goal honestly when I go in, even from the first step of like even the security guard to the you know registration, um, you know, I think hospitals have so much pressure right now. And I think it's very difficult across the board when people come in and need help. And and my goal, especially with substance use disorders, um, I know for me in my own journey, until I knew about recovery, I didn't I didn't know about recovery.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

And so I think this was recovery, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:29

Right. I didn't I didn't know what it was, I didn't know um where to look, what to help, like I didn't know what levels of care meant. Um, you know, there's so many different things. And so for me, that educational piece, just going in and A, just offering some, some kindness and a smile to folks that are really in um an intense working environment to to show some appreciation and just to try to share what research resources are available. You know, our program at Insight, um, we do work with private insurance. Um, but then we also want to collect all the resources we can for folks that don't have insurance, that have Medicaid, that have Medicare, that, you know, um that might be struggling with something that we're not the right fit for. And so, you know, for me, it's like connecting those dots so that if someone needs help, I can, I can be a resource to connect, even reaching out to you, you know, when I have folks that that you're gonna be the right fit for. So it's really just it's it's it's kind of a cool perk. I get to go meet people and connect and and um be available so that um if they have someone walk in the door um and they aren't sure what to do or where to go, then then I can get on the phone with them or their family um and see if if either I can help or if I know someone that can help. So it's really um I think right now there is also, you know, um there's so many shifts. There's there's a lot of different resources out there. Um, there's a lot of different different things that um it it that connecting the dots piece is is really, really big. And so um I'm grateful to get to do it. And and I just know when I walk in, um, you know, I I feel for folks, um, especially going towards my MSW and and knowing people that currently are social workers in those environments and they're working incredibly long shifts and have a lot of pressure on them, and they don't have the time to or the option to go out and visit different centers or visit different detoxes or visit different places to make recommendations of either. And so that's kind of one of the pieces that that I I go and do. So when I make recommendations or help folks, um, I actually have the information that's going to be helpful to share with them um firsthand.

Connecting Uninsured And Complex Cases

SPEAKER_00 6:53

And you know, that's the that's the big piece because that's where silos exist, right? Um when when you've got providers and when when a hot you know when we speak of hospital as provider, you're talking about a social worker and a therapist and a and a psychiatrist. Um the system that they've designed for that care is not my favorite. Um they're limited. They're limited in many ways, not only by resources and time, uh, but also by the the amount of service they have to brought provide a lot of times, of course, um, and you know, the funding that's associated with those things. And they're serving a the wide range of the public, which means they can't go anywhere. They can't they can't see that there's you know insurance-based residential treatment out there, or you know, a PHP or an IOP where these people can go and receive continued care, which largely where is where the rubber meets the road. That's that's that's great you've done this hospitalization and maybe been sober for three days or whatever or whatever. But if you don't, I mean, the likelihood of you just picking right back up where you left off is like in the 90s, if you don't go do something else for continued care. Um I tell people all the time if you've if you've ended up in a hospital for a site for either a psychiatric condition or a recovery condition or both, chances are very good you need more care. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And then you and you know, the the you've got the the private world, the that is uh, you know, your private therapists and everything else. I'm often, and I don't know what your experience is, but I'm often pretty amazed by what they don't know. Like like the you know, they've gone through and they've gotten to school, and a lot of them may have a touch of experience working for an organization or doing something. Not many of them get the opportunity to go do like the kind of intensive residential care or even high-level PHP, like what you guys are at Insight. Um and and the world they know is it's very similar. They become siloed, and the world they know is like, well, you know, the worried well and people with intense conditions, and the minute they run into somebody who's got a very intense condition, they don't know what to do. And a lot of times they'll throw their hands up, like I can't work with you. And they don't know where to send, they don't know where to send them. So are you finding out in the world when you see like you just met this new this therapist that that uh has got a practice out there? Are you finding them to be, you know, with the with the world talking about recovery the way that it does, are you finding them to be more educated these days? Do you they do you think that they know do you see them knowing more or being connected to more? Like what is the experience you're having with private practices?

Breaking Silos Across Providers

SPEAKER_04 9:49

You know, I think that it's it's funny because I feel like folks that do want to work specifically even as private therapists with substance uh use disorders, there is a real passion there. And then I think there is somewhat of uh maybe resistance for folks that don't know. But I think that I'm I think that it's it's really an asset now. And I'm noticing even in these group practices that they're wanting to make sure that they have at least one or two individuals that really do specialize in substance. And so I think that's been helpful for the whole practice because then there is somewhat of a you know, there's their scope. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was one thing that really surprised me, you know, when I started the program I'm in through UNC Charlotte, it's the distance education. So I've been able to do it virtually and in my travel. And um, and it's been continuous for three years. And really when I started, you know, I had the ignorance like, oh, everybody's in here in here has some experience or background in in recovery or substances and mental health. And that was very, very inaccurate. So um I think maybe, maybe you know, like 10% Everybody knows what I know, right? Yeah, exactly, right? It's all about me. So um, but I was really surprised by that. So it was really interesting to go in and then even to create dialogues within the cohort about, you know, certain cases and how to even see it um, you know, from a different lens. And so, so it was interesting to me. Um that I think it really is though about about getting out there and connecting and even sharing. Like I'm very transparent about my my own journey and and so letting people know that, you know, you you can't see it, you can't assume anything. Um, and so it it's non-discriminatory. Um, but I think to have, I actually gone into a hospital at one point and had a social worker that that was like, I don't understand, you know, we see the same folks repeatedly. And that even that notion of like, okay, that's a great talking point of, you know, like this is this, like just like what you mentioned, that this is gonna really be this crisis stabilization, this um, you know, quick couple days, even if that at a hospital. And then what's the next step to then help that individual to not have to keep coming back repeatedly to the hospital? Um but yeah, so it's been it is really interesting. And I think um, I think people are very the people that I I go and speak to and connect with, I think there's much more of an open-mindedness about talking about recovery. And I think, you know, I'm sure you can agree almost everyone's impacted in some way or another when it comes down to it. Um, and and I think that's really what it's about is having the conversations um and and asking the questions.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

So now I get to ask you the fun, hard questions. See a little bit. It's a gotcha interview.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

No, I'm just all right, all right, I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

So I I say this all the time and I want to get your take on it. Um I don't believe that there I don't believe that substance use uh when people suffer from from addiction uh or suffer from you know substance use disorder, as the DSM likes to call it. I don't believe that people suffer from that um without suffering from from mental illness. When when when you've achieved a level where substance use has become a real problem, when you know you've done things like end up in hospitals or end up in detox, you know, those kinds of levels. I'm not talking about somebody who went bench drinking and decided they did cut it back. Like I'm talking about a person who's really in recovery and struggles with uh some form of substance, that you experience that uh in a vacuum, that you experience it uh without us being able to look deeper and say, hey, there's there's mental illness here. There's um there's a maladaptive strategy that's been engaged to resolve something that has gone unresolved. Would you agree with that statement?

Are Therapists Ready For SUD Care

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Absolutely. I think they're one and the same. I think that addiction, you know, it's the best support of that is that removing the substances, removing the alcohol, um does not simply solve the the problem. And so I think that's where the support is. Yeah, yeah. So there we start in that, you know, in that um and and I had a huge amount of resistance to the process because it was like I need to stop and I need to do all of this work on myself. And that just seems like outrageous, you know. But I I do it's it's it's you know, all of the behaviors that especially if there is long term or even you know, enough that it's that dependency, you know, you're creating brain paths of support. How do you act? How do you react? How do you, you know, um behave? And so then when you remove the substances, you have to really do so much work to retrain yourself. Um, it's like I I always say, you know, that it's I look at it as, you know, my my brain is wired differently. And I really had to relearn how to use this tool and take care of it. And then the support of that is once I really invested in that, then it didn't become so much about, oh, I can't have drugs and alcohol, but it became I've done so much work, I don't want to backtrack and I don't want to take away from that. But I I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's it's it's all mental health. It's absolutely, you know, I mean, and it's there's so many different cliche things, but it's the use is the symptom, you know. But I I definitely agree. It's uh and it's something that even continuing on, it's I you know, things that I have to to work on and do um to continue to to maintain my mental health.

Education, Lived Experience, And Stigma

SPEAKER_00 16:17

I I don't disag I'm not disagreeing with the disease model, you know what I mean? There are definitely people in the world and lots of them that are that are you know genetically predisposed um or biologically predisposed to end up with an addiction. You know, we've got addiction in our family, it follows, it definitely does. Um, and I'm a person who has to be more careful than another person, or there's a person who fell into it, and it's like, well, we look in the past and we go, we we know where that came from. And there's a lot of theory, there's a lot of theories about, you know, um generational trauma, um, the epigenetics that's involved in addictions. And and you know, for the public, we'll do this very quickly, but um, my my favorite analogy for this is a slinky. If you take a slinky and it goes, it's like, this is your genetic code, right? But your genetic code, you don't what makes you is not all of it. Your genetic code has like, you know, your grandma and your great grandma and your grandfather and all this people, they're all mixed in. Your epigen your epigenome is what is the thing that selects what part of the code it starts to pick up on. It's like, well, it's gonna be blue eyes, and it's gonna be, you know, this skin color and this hair color and this everything else. And maybe it's gonna be, you know, uh, some genetic condition that this person had or a disease that runs in the family or something else. And what we're seeing, of course, as we study these epigenetics is that your environment has an influence over these things as a person grows. Um, the way that you care for yourself and even into adulthood. Uh, and I talked with a doc even most recently, it's like when you start to have a person's brain chemistry change, and they start to become more stable and they start to get to a place where recovery is taking hold. We believe everybody believes that the epigenetic genetics is making a shift. Where it's making a change in the way, you know, this person's becoming healthier, they're becoming more stable, and they're becoming it's a very different kind of scene now than it was before, and the epigenome is starting to change. So this disease model is very fascinating to me. And that leads me to this question for you. You you're I mean, you reference like, you know, there's all these things I need to do, and I don't want to backtrack and everything else. Your process in recovery, like when you your your recovery story, and you don't have to give us all the nitty-gritty details, but uh if you were to kind of mirror image yourself prior to recovery and yourself now, what would you say are the kind of biggest pieces that that stick out to you that that changed, that evolved, that took place for that in that journey that you took?

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Um that's a big question. It's been a journey. Um I mean, I think I think my temperament, I think um, I am my it's it's still funny when people will say, Oh, you have such a good energy, or you, you know, I I'm probably not always calm, that might not be accurate, but you know, things things that pertain to I would say uh temperament, even personality, you know, are very different. Um I I I was I was just such a reactive being, you know, I was a I was a defense mechanism, I was so reactive. Um, but I think man, I think there's so many things that are different. Um I for me, I feel like the ability to learn who I am and what my values are and some of the things that were bypassed because I really did start turning to drugs and alcohol at a young age, even though I was able to maintain school and and you know, it was almost like living in a double.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

So you were normal. Yeah.

Addiction And Mental Health: One Picture

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I I was class president of my high school, 5'25. Do you know what I mean? I went to college. I was um, I did so many things, but I I really did rely on alcohol to make me feel comfortable around people, to I think that that created this false sense of who I was. Um, and so the I'd say, you know, just finding my authentic self in this process, um, and then feeling truly like what what you see today is is who I am. And it's consistent, you know, living in integrity. And and you have the steps and you have the spiritual principles and you have, you know, therapy is is a big one for me. And um and so there's so many different pieces, but I think even when I mentioned that in the backtrack piece, and I know there are so many different debates of you know, disease model, it's not a disease. Um the important thing for me, and I tested this over time, is you know, abstinence is is my path. And I even where I am today, I still credit the fact that it's because I'm not putting drugs or alcohol in, and whether or not that, you know, um it could be different if I were to consume something now. That's kind of like what I was talking about before. I've done so much work that. That's not a risk that I'd be willing to take. So that's the only concern I have sometimes in some of the different arguments, is I know for me, as an addict, as an alcoholic, to be told if it was more of an environmental situation or things at the time, then my brain would say, Awesome, let me fix all that. And then I can get back to my drinking and using, you know, like that's right. That's like what comes into my head when I hear it. So that's like, so for me, it's like um it's yeah, anyway, I'll stop. Does that answer?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

No, I I yeah, it really does because this piece about you're talking about how your your body and your mind and and even to a large extent your spirit responds to uh uh a substance. Like all of us are you know, there are poisons out in the world, right? Some of us are allergic to things. I like the allergic, you know, and you happen to be you happen to have a specific allergy to alcohol. Um and it's an existential allergy, right? Like it's this it's this thing that that you can't be clear and authentic about who you are if that substance is is in your system because it starts to throw all the firings off and everything, your clarity off and everything else.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Well, and I think even it's funny as you were saying that, I think it's it it took a lot of time. I would never have wanted to admit that I was sensitive, you know. That sounds so weak, but but but sensitivity, you know, that's that's where in learning to be free of you know all substances, having to feel feelings, having to handle challenging situations and irritating people and uncomfortable situations and uncomfortable conversations, I think even more so that the substances would throw me off. I think that I, now that I'm like, I'm able to handle and and do these things and don't need that escape, you know. So for me, I look at it more as um, I had to really throw away, throw away the idea of I know what's next, I know what I'm gonna do with my life, I know what's coming. And I don't. And once I got more comfortable with not knowing, you know, and open to what's next, like I'm excited to see what's next. And and I know though, if I if I don't keep like, you know, staying awake and alert. And let me tell you, I got sober right before COVID. So it's been, I'm like, man, like I really woke up at a, you know, there's a lot going on here. Like this is, you know, I might have wanted to, yeah, skip another year, but you know, you wake up and you realize like life is hard, there's crazy things going on. There's, you know, um, things, it's but you're awake and you get to experience it. And that's the piece for me is I I lost so many experiences with my kids in relationships with my family because I couldn't handle how difficult life was, or I didn't want to. And so I took something to not feel, and now that I can feel, it's like I don't want to miss out on anything else.

Brain Change, Epigenetics, And Recovery

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Well, I mean, you you you decided something. You decided like that, you know, not only am I okay with life, I'm excited about it. And anything that takes me away from this life that I've become excited about is not something I'm willing to, it's not something that risk I'm willing to take, it's not something I'm willing to do. And I I I really because I think it normalizes for people, I really like making the cross comparisons to medical conditions. Like I you know, I have gout, which is so do my granddad and my dad, like it's generational. It's like I can't I can't touch shrimp, like I can't touch it. I'm not allergic, I'm not allergic to it. It's not like I'll have an anaphylactic shock condition, but if I put it in my body, I will be limping within 12 hours. And it's like my body just can't handle it, and I don't I don't like being immobile, I don't like being compromised by my you know health condition. I don't like the amount of pain that you have to endure as a result of it, and so I don't eat it, you know. Like I I I really like it, it's a food that I always enjoyed before that that came on, but I don't eat it because I know the consequences that will follow. And it's like, so because we do all this stuff where it's like, well, you like you just said this a minute ago, which is really interesting to me. It's like, well, you can't have any of it, that means you that you're weak, and I think people get this messaging going, and you know, it's like, well, I can handle things, and I if I can't handle something, that means I'm weak, and I'm not weak, and I you know like there's this identity crisis that happens as a result of it. It's like, no, you have a you are sensitive to a substance in the world, and it will cause you. I mean, talk about threatening your life. I'm talking about threatening my mobility, but you're talking about threatening your existence. It's like you should be super sensitive to whether or not you're doing something like that to yourself. And I don't I mean, I think the the you know, some of the stigma is going away, but it's not gone for sure. Um, and that the kind of educating the rest of the world about what people really truly endure in recovery. Um, and I I just I love this message that you're giving, which is I don't want to miss out on anything, and this causes me to miss out on stuff. I I like I that's just brilliant to me. It doesn't matter whether we call it a disease or what we call it, it's like this makes me miss out on stuff and miss relationships and screw up things and do all kinds of stuff, and I'm not gonna overrisk that because I want I want to you know be with my my partner and my children and my family and my everybody else, and I want to experience that as richly as I possibly can, which you know, whether you were in recovery or not, I think is a great outlook on life in general.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Um, and so you know, the what is it that you, you know, what is it you're looking forward to? You know, you're in you're you're you're in this as a career now, like you're not just doing your own recovery, you're responsible for working with other people in recovery and giving them this message. Like, what do you look forward to in your work?

Mo’s Recovery: From Reactive To Rooted

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Man, I mean, first I want to just also just add to be fully transparent, you know, getting to the point where I'm saying this to you, I it took several treatment centers, it took several, you know, relapses, returning to use. And so I I always like to, it's hard, it's not easy, you know. And somebody had said to me once, it's like learning to go on red and stop on green. And and it's like you're it's you know what I mean? Like then, and I so I just want to like throw that in there as a disclaimer because I don't ever claim to be like, oh yeah, and you know, here we are today. So, you know, but the the not giving up and like so leading that into what do I look forward to in my in my work and in my job. I love um where I work and set recovery center. Um, you know, Lisa and Adam McIsaac, who are the owners, they're both in long-term recovery, they're amazing people. Um and they helped me in my in my own journey. And so to be in a space, you know, where I work with people who I care about, I know they care about who they're helping. Um, and and I get to support really from before people even come in to our center or even helping people that don't come to our center. But, you know, talking to people that might be picking up the phone for the very first time and knowing how hard that is to do, and just being kind and being compassionate and telling them how courageous it is to pick up the phone. I think, you know, um that's a gift for me to, you know, be able to show up for someone. When I had people that answered the phone, I will remember the nurses and the case managers and the techs that worked at places when I was at my lowest that were just simply kind to me. And that is what breaks stigma. That is what allows you to say, hey, this person cares about me and wants to help me. And and and that that is the time when that kind of shows through and you really feel like somebody loves me and I can do this, you know? And so that gift of now getting to show up for other people that way, or when they're struggling, getting on the phone, I was, I was um a very, very difficult client. I was not easy, okay? I was not easy. So when sometimes there's willful.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Do we call that willful?

SPEAKER_04 31:09

There we go. Yes, yes. It's still, yeah, I still am a bit willful, but uh slightly willful, yeah. Slightly. But you know, when someone's struggling or angry or having a bad day, like getting on, you know, and I also, you know, I taught eighth grade for 10 years. And so, you know, there's so much of like it's wild, like getting to to work with, and I say it about myself too. Like, there's a lot of parallels between that adolescent brain and being in early recovery and that push-pull of like, leave me alone, don't tell me what to do. I don't know what to do. I need help. I don't want this, but I need it, you know, and it's so there's so many things that when I get to talk to, you know, even a client that's struggling, it's never like, listen, what did you do that for? What's going on? But it's like, hey, what is what's going on? What do you need? Like what because you know, these like behaviors come up and it's it's so much more it's it's it's very um just to be able to support someone and talk someone through a rough moment, or just even say, it's okay to not be okay, you know, like we care, you're safe, and it's okay, you know, and that's sometimes just all somebody needs to hear. And slowly I've built, you know, I I've got my CDAC. Um, and then I will graduate in May with my MSW. Congratulations. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah. So we'll go for my LCAS and then, you know, register to start working on my LCSW. And and I've been a part of Insight since, you know, before we opened, and I'm so grateful to be a part of what it is and just want to keep bringing what I'm learning and gaining into what we're creating there.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

So it's a really special, special place.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

It really is. Um well, and you know, it's just what you speak to about doing the work. Like you got sober and you did a lot of work to get sober, and you're in a you're in this kind of really great place, I think. From from my view, it's a really great place. And you know, your response to that is to keep doing the work. Yeah. I mean, there's a saying that's like, what do you do before enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water. What do you do after enlightenment? You chop wood, carry water.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

You keep doing it.

Abstinence, Identity, And Risk

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Just keep doing the work. Um, and I I think that they're, you know, I say this sometimes, and and and I and I do mean it, it sounds like it's a little flippant, but um, in some ways, uh, a person in recovery has a little easier than a person who's not in recovery, uh, because they are forced in many ways and and a lot of times early on to have to face some demons. I have to really get real with who they are and to like go. And you know, people I've had people talk about this. It's like somebody does something awful, and it turns out they suffer from a mental health condition, a substance use condition, and they've got all this stuff going on, um, and they've done something wrong and gotten involved in the law, and you're like, sounds like they need treatment, and somebody chimes in because people do this, and like, oh, you just want to send them to go get coddled and everything else. They just get to go to treatment and they get to have all these nice things. It's just like I said, I'll tell you what, I want you to submit yourself to 60 to 90 days of doctors and licensed clinicians circling around you every day for all of you, for as many hours you as you can endure to talk about the deep-seated darkness that you've got going on in your life where you're gonna have to be vulnerable and expose everything that is precious and dear to you. Does that sound like that's sound like something that's easy and simple? Does that sound like coddling to you? Because most people I know, if given that opportunity, would run immediately for the hills. It is by far one of the most courageous things a person can ever do in their life without coding. Absolutely. And a person in recovery has to go do that, and then they come out with all the, you know, with the if they take it to heart, right? Then they come out with a lot of this, like, oh wow, and now you get to begin this journey of like, and by the way, all that work is great for recovery. Congratulations, thumbs up. Now you've embarked on a methodology that is incredible for a person becoming this kind of whole being, which is really the point in the end. Yes, you know what I mean. Like the rest of it, the rest of us, you know, for people who are not in recovery, you have to commit to your own work. And there are people out there who do that. A lot of people can just ride in under the surface and don't have to become aware. I say it like there's a lot of people out there that never get out past a whole lot past concrete operations. They're not thoughtful, they're not thinking about things, they're not digging in and doing their own work, and they're in a position where they're not having to be, which is why I think we have all this, you know, conflict and separation in our world today. But you know, I think that people like you go into these environments and the just the spirit of you, whether a person's a recoverer or not, yeah you're giving people something to look at. And I did what you're doing for clients to come in, you give them something that's like, hey, here's a person on the other side of this. I like that person, they're authentic, they seem cool, and they're sober, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

I think that your story gives people hope, but um, I'm just excited to have you out there doing the work.

Sensitivity, Feeling Again, And Integrity

SPEAKER_04 36:39

Thank you. Uh you know, one thing that you said too, um, it's it is you you're learning this process, and I will always remember initially you're like, oh, this is like forever, you know, even how you said I I already said like doing the work, right? But I have a sponsor who um just turned 79. Actually, today, today is her birthday. She's 79 today. And um she I'm I I think she has 40 years, and I may have misquoted that slightly, but she continues to do work in the way that I now in the last year, really the last couple of years, started to see it's not even that you have to do this forever. It's I always have a way to work on a conflict in my life to change how I'm feeling. Like there is always something that I now know how to do to work on myself. And that is a gift. It's huge. Initially, it's like, what are you asking of me? And you know, but further down, it's like, wow, like, okay, I don't like how this is going in my life. I don't so okay, I know, you know, like you said, I I've learned these resources. I have people to call and talk to, and there's something I can do about it. And that's where then that continued growth and change and involvement comes into play. Um, and I also really quick, when you talked about the courage, and this was something I shared with you previously, and I like to just share, and I would like to share it on here is for women, you know, having to make a decision to go to treatment when you have my children were young, um, you know, five, four. There were four, six, and seven. I have three the first time I had to leave for treatment, and and talk about stigma and you know, shame and being away, you know, or leaving. And I had to leave more than once. And and there was actually, you know, um, an individual that shared with me um that, you know, when when women in the military leave to fight for their country, that they're applauded and that it's considered, you know, like like they're brave.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

They're going out and right honorable.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Thank you. And and she said to me, what you're doing is the most brave and courageous thing you can be doing. And you're going away from them to fight for your life so that you're gonna be available and accessible and present for theirs. And so I share that because there are so many things that's like, I can't do this, I can't do that. But when we look at that, you know, timeline and whether it is 30, 60, 90, however much time to step out to to give yourself that space to to heal and to work, you know, work through these things so that you can then, you know, be present for your family, your loved ones, your children. Um, that was something that really stuck with me. And and I think I also shared with you my teenage kids will from time to time stop and thank me for leaving as many times as I had to to be present and available for them. And they need me today, and they have their own things that they're going through and struggling, you know, and so um to have that availability. But those are just two things I wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

I mean, that it sounds really hard to me. Um, and I think that there are probably lots of people uh that that will make the excuse, right? They'll say, well, you know, I can't do it because of a job or a spouse or uh, you know, loved ones and children and everything else. It's like getting help is the most important thing that you can do when you know that you need it. Um and taking those steps is is one of the most courageous things a person does, but I I also think that it's important that you give this message. It's like you can do this, and you should and you should. Yeah, yeah, you know, so yeah, well, Mo, I you know, uh you and I have known each other now for a few years. Um and I always love spending time with you. I love to hear the courageousness of your story. I love just sitting and hanging out with the authentic person that you are. Um, and I really appreciate the work that you're doing with Insight Recovery there here in town. And um, I hope that you travel safe as you're out there working in the world and meeting all the people. And um, I hope that you get back on the show and share more with us next time. But until then, this has been Head Inside Mental Health. Oh, Rhodi's been on the show with us today with Insight Recovery. Great to see you. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Oh, fab I home.